[Vtigercrm-developers] Fwd: Re: Cooperation - part 2

Vic Cekvenich vic.cvc at gmx.com
Sun Aug 17 22:05:04 GMT 2014



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Cooperation - part 2
Date: 	Fri, 1 Aug 2014 16:06:12 +0200
From: 	Matteo Baranzoni <info at greenbitweb.com>
Reply-To: 	vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
To: 	vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com



@Sreenivas Owncloud inc, Zimbra inc, Zentyal S.L.
are commercial company that work with community using a community council.

Create a working group does not mean "steal" your leadership but join 
forces, currently many resources available in the community are lost 
because vtiger guys does not have time to follow.
For example: Italian translation, it's completed in trac (created by my 
team and Simone Travaglini) but Vt6.1 still has a translation done with 
google translator. Why should I pay employees in order to continue (or 
expand) our contribute to Vtiger?




2014-08-01 15:35 GMT+02:00 Sreenivas Kanumuru <svk at vtiger.com 
<mailto:svk at vtiger.com>>:

    @Matteo,

        /why not create a governance such as other open source projects
        (like owncloud, libreoffice)? A community council with vtiger
        guys, opensaas, its4you, Alan, Joe that plan future of vtiger
        and keep up to date the code, accept proposals, check submitted
        code etc. Possibly moving on github and using the powerful tools
        provided by this platform!/


    Vtiger is a commercial company. Vtiger Open source edition is
    instrumental for our success. We always believed that there is money
    to be made by providing affordable (even free) software to
    businesses. Since our business depends on it, it is important for us
    to be able to chart the course of the open source product. At the
    same time, there might be better ways to collaborate than what we
    are doing today (mostly via  this list). We plan to move from SVN to
    github/gitlab  later this year. (trac issues migration is one of the
    tasks we want to complete).

    @Mutuku,

    Thanks for sharing your comments.

        A few years ago (when the motto was "The only truly open source
        CRM" ), I tried forming a business around implementing CRM
        solutions for clients.


        Different markets require specific customizations. I would
        suggest having a  "core" crm engine and let the community build
        modules around it, given different business scenarios


    Vtiger Open Source has enabled many such vertical solutions. Joe's
    CoreBOS Law and Medical editions are recent examples. Joe is able to
    release them with a proprietary license because Vtiger's MPL based
    open source license is truly open. (GPL license would have forced
    Joe to release them under GPL)

    Regards,
    Sreenivas

    On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Mutuku Ndeti <jnmutuku at gmail.com
    <mailto:jnmutuku at gmail.com>> wrote:

        Let me start by saying thank you for the work done with vtiger

        I would like to add my voice here too. A few years ago (when the
        motto was "The only truly open source CRM" ), I tried forming a
        business around implementing CRM solutions for clients.

        My first implementation, with some customization (5.0) wowed the
        client (who had been using excel sheets and had failed in trying
        out customizing sugarcrm).

        After that it was a uphill task due to lack of documentation /
        community support / Road Map. I was not confident about
        direction /  documentation, so I gave up, changed the business
        and started implementing drupal solution (more open active
        community). I even implemented basic crm using it. I like the
        drupal model (they have the commercial Acquia and the very open
        source drupal). There is a lot of documentation and freedom. I
        don't mind donating to the community because my business is
        fully founded on drupal solutions.

        That said, I keep coming back and testing vtiger because I see a
        local market for custom CRMs. What I find every time is that
        Vtiger is becoming more closed that open.

        To cut the long story short :-

        1. I think there should be a clear road map (so that users / 
        integrators are not left in the dark). With every "curveball",
        Vtiger looses users / a market
        2. I think Vtiger should adopt a fully open source model (with
        some form of governance). I really like the drupal model (where
        there is a "core" and users build modules around it. From time
        to time, the governance decides what should be included in
        core)  You can an have a commercial offshoot (We all need to pay
        the bills)
        3. Different markets require specific customizations. I would
        suggest having a  "core" crm engine and let the community build
        modules around it, given different business scenarios

        thanks






        On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:40 PM, SIAM Translations
        <info at siam-translations.com <mailto:info at siam-translations.com>>
        wrote:

            Let's see response :-)

            Andy



            On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Matteo Baranzoni
            <info at greenbitweb.com <mailto:info at greenbitweb.com>> wrote:

                why not create a governance such as other open source
                projects (like owncloud, libreoffice)?
                A community council with vtiger guys, opensaas, its4you,
                Alan, Joe that plan future of vtiger and keep up to date
                the code, accept proposals, check submitted code etc.
                Possibly moving on github and using the powerful tools
                provided by this platform!


                2014-07-30 17:29 GMT+02:00 Sreenivas Kanumuru
                <svk at vtiger.com <mailto:svk at vtiger.com>>:

                    Thanks for sharing your thoughts,  Blazej. I do
                    understand your time is precious and appreciate you
                    taking the time to provide it here.

                    Your points A-G refer to our decision to remove the
                    'install from file' option and to add the feature to
                    encrypt the extension file. We did it for the
                    following reasons

                     1. Removing 'Install from File' option - to protect
                        users
                     2. Encrypt the Extension - to empower developers
                        (as Matus noted, some developers might want it)

                    Certain assumptions we made were not on the mark. We
                    shared the preview here in the developers list to
                    ensure we get it right. We are taking feedback and
                    making corrections.

                           1. Add 'Install from File' option  - done
                           2. Allow Free extensions installation without
                    loader - pending to be done shortly

                    *2 + 20 developers*

                    While we have 2 dedicated resources for trac, we
                    have 20+ other developers contributing to
                    improvements to the product (list view search is an
                    example that was deployed to 6.1 branch recently,
                    many more improvements are integrated into 6.1)

                    *2 Business Days*
                    *
                    *

                        /If you don’t believe, I can send you modules,
                        and you can try to publish them in two days./

                    *
                    *
                    I mentioned that "we will respond to new submissions
                    in 2 business days.". I meant that we will review
                    and approve or reply to the developer. So, you are
                    right for complex modules we might need more time to
                    review. But, our goal is to respond with our
                    findings within 2 business days.

                    *Encouraging Developers*

                        /You have done everything you could to
                        discourage us from continuing our dialogue and
                        from your product./


                    I am sorry you see it that way, but our efforts are
                    to only make Vtiger open source more stronger and to
                    empower developers.

                    I welcome your feedback. Though critical, I know it
                    is coming from a well intended mind.

                    Regards,
                    Sreenivas

                    *
                    *
                    On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Maik Standtke
                    <maikst at gmail.com <mailto:maikst at gmail.com>> wrote:


                        2014-07-30 15:45 GMT+02:00 Pabiszczak, Błażej
                        <b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
                        <mailto:b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl>>:

                            Summary


                            You have done everything you could to
                            discourage us from continuing our dialogue
                            and from your product.




                        +1

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