[Vtigercrm-developers] Fwd: Re: ionCube/ZendGuard vs Vtiger Installer - What do developers prefer?
Vic Cekvenich
vic.cvc at gmx.com
Sun Aug 17 22:07:49 GMT 2014
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] ionCube/ZendGuard vs Vtiger
Installer - What do developers prefer?
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:44:49 +0530
From: Sreenivas Kanumuru <svk at vtiger.com>
Reply-To: vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
To: vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>
We considered input from others, in various conversations related to the
store, in the past 1 month. This decision was not made based on a single
person's input.
These were the biggest factors
1. Concerns about installing Vtiger loader. (hosting providers'
restrictions)
2. Vtiger loader is still work in progress - Windows loader is still not
ready, and performance concerns arose
3. We can bring the Vtiger loader back as an alternative when it is ready.
We feel more comfortable also with this approach, and see that this
would also address some of the apprehensions.
Please let us know if you have any concerns with using ionCube /
ZendGuard / or other alternatives. We are keen on providing a solution
that meets developers needs.
Regards,
Sreenivas
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Zebra Hosting <support at zebrahosting.eu
<mailto:support at zebrahosting.eu>> wrote:
Bit disappointing that no others have given their opinion. Don’t
think it is healthy to base decisions on one persons feedback.
Bastiaan Houtkooper
Zebra Hosting
From: Sreenivas Kanumuru <svk at vtiger.com <mailto:svk at vtiger.com>>
Reply-To: "vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>"
<vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>>
Date: woensdag 13 augustus 2014 10:26
To: "vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>"
<vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] ionCube/ZendGuard vs Vtiger
Installer - What do developers prefer?
Hi,
Suggestions from the list have prompted us to pause the development
on Vtiger Installer. Developers can continue to protect extensions
using existing alternatives such as ionCube / ZendGuard / or another
tool, and distribute via marketplace.
As a result, the following changes will be made in the marketplace
1. 'Try before Buy' feature will not be available on a listing
(Developer can create a separate 'Trial only' listing for the
extension with a download restricted for X days..)
2. Without Try feature, Customers might express dissatisfaction and
request refund after installing the app. So, we will provide the
ability for Publishers to issue refund from the publisher portal
3. Extension will not be restricted to MAC address.
We hope that this decision will expand the reach of paid apps to
more users. Users will not need to install Vtiger loader. Instead,
they would need the loader for the tool used by the extension
developer. ionCube / ZendGuard seem to be already installed by
hosting providers. So, this will reduce a step for users.
While we are pausing the work on the Vtiger loader, we plan to get
back to this later, and provide as an alternative.
Regards,
Sreenivas
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Sreenivas Kanumuru <svk at vtiger.com
<mailto:svk at vtiger.com>> wrote:
Thanks Bastiaan. ( i edited the email subject to reflect the
discussion)
What do others think of using IonCube or ZendGuard for source
code protection instead of Vtiger installer? If the popular
opinion favors ionCube / ZendGuard, we can take that route. I
summarized the pros/cons below. If users can share more benefits
of ionCube/ZendGuard, it will be helpful.
Benefits of ionCube / ZendGuard
1. ionCube / Zendguard installers are likely to be preinstalled
by hosting provider, even in the webhosting plans. So users
will be able to install paid extensions without having to
install Vtiger loader.
2. Windows installer is readily available (Vtiger installer for
windows is not yet ready)
3. Paid extensions can be more widely distributed since more
users will have the installer ready.
Disadvantages of ionCube / ZendGuard
1. Users would be able to copy the encrypted extension to
another machine and use it. It will not be possible to
restrict license to MAC address (since the extension is
distributed through the marketplace, the manual generation
of license by entering MAC address will not work).
Developer will need to provide Vtiger a encrypted version
with a license that doesn't restrict it to a specific address.
2. 'Try before Buy' feature will not be available
3. There are already some hacking tools to convert code
obfuscated by IonCube back to readable format
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cMKiWdxpvA).
4. Developer has to pay $400 to $800 to buy the
ionCube/ZendGuard Tool. (with Vtiger installer, developer is
free)
Via our marketplace, even if we go with ionCube / ZendGuard,
Publishers will still be able to view the number of downloads,
sales revenue, etc, through the publisher portal.
Regards,
Sreenivas
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Zebra Hosting
<support at zebrahosting.eu <mailto:support at zebrahosting.eu>> wrote:
We also offer Colo what would be number 4 on your list. + a
variety of managed and un-managed versions
of each.
Yes we have ion cube standard installed for all (shared)
hosting yes. Both windows and Linux systems.
Bastiaan Houtkooper
Zebra Hosting
From: Sreenivas Kanumuru <svk at vtiger.com
<mailto:svk at vtiger.com>>
Reply-To: "vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>"
<vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>>
Date: maandag 11 augustus 2014 10:22
To: "vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>"
<vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
<mailto:vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] vtiger > Market place
module protection (was: joomla articles)
Thanks for the feedback, Bastiaan. We can open up the store
to allow developers to encrypt using IonCube/ZendGuard and
distribute via marketplace. Besides the concerns i shared
one of the other features we will not be able to offer with
IonCube/ZendGuard, is the 'Try before you Buy' feature.
I wanted to seek some input to help shape our decision.
I see hosting companies generally have 3 plans
1. Web Hosting (cheapest)
2. VMs
3. Dedicated Servers
Are you saying that IonCube installer is preinstalled for
Web Hosting accounts?
thanks,
Sreenivas
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Zebra Hosting
<support at zebrahosting.eu <mailto:support at zebrahosting.eu>>
wrote:
Dear Screenivas,
Thanks for your explanation, (although I had those
reasons also figured out). They are logical and make
sense from vTiger point of view.
From a hosting company point of view it will be a bit
different. Guess we will have to advice people to run
vTiger from their own VM if they want to use the
marketplace.
Seriously increasing their costs from standard hosting.
Lets see if they think it is worth it.
Remains the overal discussion how people protect their
modules now outside the marketplace and if there is
something to learn from that process.
Bastiaan Houtkooper
Zebra Hosting
> On 11 aug. 2014, at 07:02, Sreenivas Kanumuru
> <svk at vtiger.com <mailto:svk at vtiger.com>> wrote:
>
> Bastiaan, Thanks for sharing your feedback.
>
> We considered using IonCube or ZendGuard. However, we
> didn't proceed because of the following concerns.
>
> 1. Each extension developer has to purchase the
> Encoder ($400 to $800) and pay additional support
> fees.
> 2. On the same MAC address we can have multiple
> copies of Vtiger. So, the standard MAC address
> based restriction would not work.
> 3. Developer has to encode before submitting to
> Vtiger. (with our loader, developer has to click a
> checbox to encrypt - nothing else)
> 4. IonCube doesn't work with APC. (reference
> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fstackoverflow.com%2Fquestions%2F3828845%2Fare-apc-and-ioncube-fully-compatible&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHp3GMEh17QElm2gKVseSMDmNQGnw>)
>
>
> We needed more flexibility, and wanted to make it
> easier and less expensive for developers. So, we
> invested the time into developing the Vtiger Loader as
> an alternative to IonCube / ZendGuard / SourceGuardian.
>
> Regards,
> Sreenivas
>
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Zebra Hosting
> <support at zebrahosting.eu
> <mailto:support at zebrahosting.eu>> wrote:
>
> Creating a new subject to avoid hijacking Andrews
> thread.
>
>
> Prasad, as mentioned earlier we are not going to
> use the vTiger market place extension on our
> servers for security reasons and I assume more
> companies will think the same way.
>
> That leaves the option for those companies to
> install modules via de manual install but the
> modules will not be encrypted and easy to copy
> (correct me if I am wrong)
>
> I haven’t been checking what could be an
> alternative option but would love to hear
> suggestions and experience how people protect
> their vTiger modules.
>
> Ioncube has been a standard way but I am not sure
> how it plays with the marketplace.
>
> Would it be possible to add a modules to the
> marketplace with a 3rd party encryption like ioncube?
>
> I really hope you guys find a way to make the
> market place work with some form of security but
> without the mandatory extra extension install.
> That would solve most issues (and end this discussion)
>
>
> Bastiaan Houtkooper
> Zebra Hosting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 10 aug. 2014, at 20:28, Prasad
>> <prasad at vtiger.com <mailto:prasad at vtiger.com>> wrote:
>>
>> If you are not choosing source-protection for
>> your extension on marketplace. When customer
>> downloads the file it would not be altered. This
>> would mean the code you had submitted (raw /
>> encrypted) would be sent over.
>>
>> I assume you would submit the code with 3rd party
>> protection if you have already have the licensed
>> copy of those application.
>>
>> Could you please share more details on the confusion.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Prasad
>>
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>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Zebra Hosting
>> <support at zebrahosting.eu
>> <mailto:support at zebrahosting.eu>> wrote:
>>
>> But than the source is unprotected.
>> I would like to see (as mentioned by others)
>> a common way like ioncube, to protect the
>> source. I like the idea to support the
>> market, I like the idea of bringing in
>> modules but it needs a decent protection
>> without extra libs.
>>
>> Bastiaan Houtkooper
>> Zebra Hosting
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10 aug. 2014, at 12:04, Prasad
>>> <prasad at vtiger.com
>>> <mailto:prasad at vtiger.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bastiaan,
>>>
>>> You can list the extension on marketplace
>>> for free and opt-out source protection.
>>> Customers will be able to use the same on
>>> CRM without need of "exotic drivers".
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Prasad
>>
>
>
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