[Vtigercrm-developers] Customer Portal

Pabiszczak, Błażej b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
Fri Sep 5 06:55:48 GMT 2014 

I assume that (most probably) you are a programmer who doesn’t have a
direct contact with customers during discussing business processes. If
customers cared only about the ticket system (what you are suggesting),
then in fact, a customer portal is unnecessary for it (email notifications
and email scanner would be enough for that). Performing over 100
deployments, none of the companied had a customer portal deployed in its
original form, we had to do at least:

1. Change of design

2. Encryption of passwords in the base

3. Defense against “brute force” attacks

4. Amendment of translations for dictionary fields

5. Change of fields





For more demanding customers, we had to:

1. Change the logics of permissions

2. Change the logics of permissions for records

3. Add additional mechanisms in tickets (search, sort, filters)

4. Add new modules (payments integrated with paypal, orders)

5. Change of PDF printout (because the default ones are horrible)





Currently, customers require from us:

1. Safety audits performed by outsourced companies





Concerning the functionality of customer portal, it’s the same as I wrote
in the first paragraph, a service of tickets is only a drop in the bucket:

1. Control of project realization (but not what can be seen currently, but
a professional tool like Redmine).

2. Indicators (of response time for tickets or orders)

3. Invoices (automatic mailing for invoices, possibility to download an
invoice from a link as well as when logging into the portal). Integration
with EDI.

4. Monitoring of tickets that were entered by low-level employees (and
their approval by authorized people).

5. Approval of additional costs (resulting from tickets).

6. Possibility of enabling/ disabling of subject tracking
(tickets/projects).



etc. I can go on and on, recently you have a tendency of creating
functionalities, which in the form you present them, are useless for most
companies. It results from – I will repeat myself again – not using these
functionalities.



You are able to create a good tool when you start using it so get rid of
„trac“ for the benefit of your own solution and then you will understand
what you are lacking.


Z poważaniem / Regards
Błażej Pabiszczak
M: +48.884999123
E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl


2014-09-04 20:29 GMT+02:00 Prasad <prasad at vtiger.com>:

> Błażej,
>
> Sorry for the limited scope of knowledge I have.
>
> As a customer I would be interested to report an issue and look forward to
> get an updated (resolution or tips) and not willing to go through entire
> system.
>
> However, crm-agent would be more interested to go through all the historic
> issues reported and knowledge base that can assist him to solve the problem.
>
> Wouldn't this mean - customer portal should as simple and straight forward
> as possible?
>
> I'm not sure if customer-portal would be used for anything other than
> this.
>
> *Connect with us on: *Twitter <http://twitter.com/vtigercrm> *I* Facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/vtiger/226866697333578?sk=wall> *I* Blog
> <https://blogs.vtiger.com/>* I* Wiki
> <http://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page> *I *Forums
> <https://discussions.vtiger.com>*I* Website <https://www.vtiger.com/>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Pabiszczak, Błażej <
> b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl> wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that every solution that requires a new encryption of
>> mechanisms deployed in the CRM system causes problems. It applies to
>> PhoneGap (as a mobile application), Joomla (as CMS for the portal) or a
>> standard Customer Portal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have an idea that would provide the possibility of setting the CRM
>> system in modes (client/server) so then it would be unnecessary to encode
>> the same mechanisms again, because they would be naturally heritable. An
>> end user would receive a customer portal in the form of reduced CRM system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Obviously, it would provide huge possibilities, for example, enabling
>> systems working as a client and synchronizing with the CRM in the server
>> mode. The communication itself can also be based on the same protocols as
>> the current customer portal (that is SOAP or REST)
>>
>>
>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>> Błażej Pabiszczak
>> M: +48.884999123
>> E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
>>
>>
>> 2014-09-04 15:18 GMT+02:00 Sutharsan Jeganathan <ajstharsan at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>  Hi
>>>
>>> I think adaptable means using customer portal in websites through
>>> Iframes or some other ways will be possible? Probably this will not en
>>>
>>> If time allows I would like to develop a PhoneGap version of Customer
>>> Portal that will be probably an interesting solution for business running
>>> with heavier customer support on site and off site.
>>>
>>> Is this an effective idea?
>>>
>>> Also if it will be possible in future to include Saved filters into the
>>> API as well as portal, so that will solve part of the search problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Sutharsan Jeganathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Prasad <prasad at vtiger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Błażej,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the update. As customer portal interfaces with customer
>>>> directly many would prefer to have it integrated with website - however the
>>>> choice of CMS would also vary.
>>>>
>>>> We are aiming to build a portal adaptable and not arrive at an
>>>> intermediate fix,
>>>> so it meets business having common use-case.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Prasad
>>>>
>>>> *Connect with us on: *Twitter <http://twitter.com/vtigercrm> *I*
>>>> Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/pages/vtiger/226866697333578?sk=wall>
>>>>  *I* Blog <https://blogs.vtiger.com/>* I* Wiki
>>>> <http://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page> *I *Forums
>>>> <https://discussions.vtiger.com>*I* Website <https://www.vtiger.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Pabiszczak, Błażej <
>>>> b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Prasad,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that slowly our paths are torn apart, because of having
>>>>> different business attitude and because we significantly change processes
>>>>> within the system itself. Additionally, looking at some functions within
>>>>> the system - they are low versions of actual processes. So knowing the
>>>>> life, even if you fix the customer portal, which will be published in 6
>>>>> months time the earliest, this version will also be too narrow and too
>>>>> reduced in comparison to what we need. That means:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Lack of possibilities to assign different profiles to different
>>>>> customers
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Lack of possibilities to assign permissions on different levels to
>>>>> records depending on Organizations’ hierarchy
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Security matters (e.g. password encryption, defense against “brutal
>>>>> force” attacks) and, in our case, adding an additional security layer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, we will surely modify logics, we will separate the
>>>>> administrative panel from the CRM system and create an independent tool
>>>>> (just like in Joomla) and we will give possibilities to set the CRM system
>>>>> in modes (client, server) where the customer mode will not have a
>>>>> configuration panel at all. Customer mode will be managed from the main
>>>>> server and it will be possible to make it available for customers in the
>>>>> CRM system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>>>> Błażej Pabiszczak
>>>>> M: +48.884999123
>>>>> E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-09-03 11:36 GMT+02:00 Prasad <prasad at vtiger.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Błażej,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was glad to receive this response. Would you mind putting down the
>>>>>> different business
>>>>>> requirements you went through with respect to portal it would be good
>>>>>> to record and review it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Prasad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Connect with us on: *Twitter <http://twitter.com/vtigercrm> *I*
>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/vtiger/226866697333578?sk=wall> *I*
>>>>>> Blog <https://blogs.vtiger.com/>* I* Wiki
>>>>>> <http://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page> *I *Forums
>>>>>> <https://discussions.vtiger.com>*I* Website <https://www.vtiger.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Pabiszczak, Błażej <
>>>>>> b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> During the past two days I looked at four different customer
>>>>>>> portals. It’s surprising how low are the needs of Vtiger users because no
>>>>>>> one has yet created a portal with better and more advanced functions.
>>>>>>> Business approach of Vtiger is destructive for the development because
>>>>>>> Vitiger prefers to create silly modules such as “RSS module” / “Our sites
>>>>>>> module”. The true is that an end user is not important for any company that
>>>>>>> deploys Vtiger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The greatest problems with the customer portal are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. The design – past 3/4 years haven’t brought any changes and
>>>>>>> that’s pathetic because no one wants to show such a “monster” to their
>>>>>>> customers.
>>>>>>> 2. Elasticity – lack of possibility to control what a company wants
>>>>>>> to make available to its customer (that includes all portals that we
>>>>>>> tested), every user of the portal sees by default the same functions and
>>>>>>> records. Maybe it’s sufficient for companies with a few employees but it
>>>>>>> doesn’t have any application within the business context.
>>>>>>> 3.Functions – the portal lacks functions for an end user. The most
>>>>>>> advanced module (Trouble Tickets) doesn’t even have a proper search or
>>>>>>> sorting options like in coreBOSCP version.
>>>>>>> 4. Business Logic – I don’t know who suggested this portal from the
>>>>>>> business perspective but in case of 40 deployments of the customer portal
>>>>>>> that we did, we had to spend many hours on the redevelopment of portal
>>>>>>> logics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate Joe’s work on coreBOSCP, but by looking at it from the
>>>>>>> business perspective, this solution is too narrow and too reduced because
>>>>>>> it lacks functions and business logics. From the technical side, this
>>>>>>> portal is very standard and based on a different technical solution. This
>>>>>>> doesn’t add any value for an end user (maybe except a column-based search).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know it may be perceived that I only criticize, but it shouldn’t.
>>>>>>> Once, we created a customer portal with such functions:
>>>>>>> 1 Firstly, we wanted to solve two problems that no one has dealt
>>>>>>> with before (Vtiger, Joe, Simon). The first one was the engine (and how
>>>>>>> it’s built) and the second one was the design. To be honest, I don’t
>>>>>>> understand why no one based this portal as a component for systems such as
>>>>>>> Wordpress or Joomla. Why each of you tries to discover it again and again?
>>>>>>> 2. Next serious limitation of standard portals was lack of the same
>>>>>>> permissions for portal users as well as the lack of different functions for
>>>>>>> different users.
>>>>>>> 3. Lack of control over the PDF printout.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We did an advanced component over a year ago that works with Vtiger
>>>>>>> 5.4. (Screenshots are attached).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Answering Joe’s question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Sorry but I don't understand: what is wrong with the coreBOSCP
>>>>>>> project?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The answer is: you spent your time on the redevelopment of technical
>>>>>>> side of the portal (in my opinion it was unnecessary), but it is as narrow
>>>>>>> as Vtiger’s solution if we look at it from the functional point of view. In
>>>>>>> this case, we prefer to spend time on shifting our old solution from 5.4 to
>>>>>>> 6.1 than work on coreBOSCP. Your customer portal might be sufficient for
>>>>>>> very small companies, but it will be incomplete and inelastic in every
>>>>>>> medium and large company.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>>>>>> Błażej Pabiszczak
>>>>>>> M: +48.884999123
>>>>>>> E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2014-09-01 9:38 GMT+02:00 Joe Bordes <joe at tsolucio.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Sorry but I don't understand: what is wrong with the coreBOSCP
>>>>>>>> project?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - it is open source
>>>>>>>> - has been available for almos a year now (and even more to some)
>>>>>>>> - it is based on Yii framework
>>>>>>>> - it attacks vtiger CRM via REST so it should work on almos all
>>>>>>>> versions (once a few enhancements that are available are installed)
>>>>>>>> - it has a clear separation of MVC and is theme based (as can be
>>>>>>>> seen in one of our presentation videos where I show one of our customized
>>>>>>>> themes for a client)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where is the collaboration/cooperation?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 01/09/14 09:16, Pabiszczak, Błażej wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  We have to change a responsive customer portal. If you don't make
>>>>>>>> it available today/tomorrow, then we will create it ourselves from scratch.
>>>>>>>> If you haven't finished, we can help you. That is how cooperation functions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Z poważaniem / Regards
>>>>>>>> Błażej Pabiszczak
>>>>>>>> M: +48.884999123
>>>>>>>> E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2014-09-01 8:47 GMT+02:00 Simone Travaglini <
>>>>>>>> simonetravaglini at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We (my company with other italian company) decide to develop the
>>>>>>>>> responsive portal and release it to the community when ready a complete
>>>>>>>>> version. Have a customer portal responsive and well designed it's a need
>>>>>>>>> for all the community. In the next hours we will update you. And maybe a
>>>>>>>>> collaboration to enhance it should start!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-01 8:21 GMT+02:00 Pabiszczak, Błażej <
>>>>>>>>> b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the requirements are various. Not everyone should
>>>>>>>>>> design functions, but it's true that together we can achieve more, but we
>>>>>>>>>> lack people who are eager to do it "together"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Z poważaniem / Regards
>>>>>>>>>> Błażej Pabiszczak
>>>>>>>>>> M: +48.884999123
>>>>>>>>>> E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  2014-08-31 23:29 GMT+02:00 Miguel Oliveira <miguel at forbit.com.br
>>>>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Why we don't join our forces to make those improvements?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  The requirements are the same for everybody.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-08-31 17:50 GMT-03:00 Joe Bordea <joe at tsolucio.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Me too :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We are all doing the same things over and over
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>>>> TSolucio
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  On 31 de agosto de 2014 22:01:21 CEST, Simone Travaglini <
>>>>>>>>>>>> simonetravaglini at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we are developing a customer portal with a responsive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> template. The work is finished and we are testing now. We will relase it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for free I think next week. I update you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-08-31 14:45 GMT+02:00 SIAM Translations <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info at siam-translations.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean you've made portal 5 for 5.4 or 6.x?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Rgds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 6:46 PM, ajstharsan at gmail.com <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ajstharsan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Hi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I saw the customer portal version 6 , but can't see much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  We have made portal 5 with bootstrap. Is it helpful?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Sutharsan jeganathan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Sent from my HTC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Prasad" <prasad at vtiger.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Customer Portal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, Aug 29, 2014 00:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry we never took off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  *Connect with us on: *Twitter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/vtigercrm> *I* Facebook
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/vtiger/226866697333578?sk=wall>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  *I* Blog <https://blogs.vtiger.com/>* I* Wiki
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page> *I *Forums
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://discussions.vtiger.com>*I* Website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.vtiger.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:31 AM, SIAM Translations <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info at siam-translations.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Guys, how is new customer portal progress going?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Andrew Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simone Travaglini
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 328 5499846
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin: Simone Travaglini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rispetta l'ambiente: non stampare questa mail se non ti è
>>>>>>>>>>>>> veramente necessario!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>> Simone Travaglini
>>>>>>>>> 328 5499846
>>>>>>>>> Linkedin: Simone Travaglini
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rispetta l'ambiente: non stampare questa mail se non ti è
>>>>>>>>> veramente necessario!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Un saludo
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>> TSolucio
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
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