[Vtigercrm-developers] Dear Blazej

Tue Oct 21 05:08:17 GMT 2014

And that's why people can't get help from developers here. They gone. Few
still left who got hope they will get some crumbled bread from the master
table. Those who left don't really want develop open source, they living in
their small business world and they don't have a time and they don't want
do anything for free. I see many questions of beginners who need help -
they was left alone. Why? Because here is not an open source community
list,  it is a board of vtiger team and its followers.
I got question to those who were amazed by extension store - lets say for
example to Mr Alan L. - how many of your heavily advertised GeoTools were
sold? You don't need answer - we all know.  You didn't realized yet why?
I'll tell you - community leaving vtiger. Not many of them left here for
the reasons mentioned by John.
Vtiger OS is not for developers or end users - it is for vtiger team. Its
simply marketing tool.

Maximilian

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:18 AM, John Crisp <john at reetspetit.net> wrote:

> On 16/10/14 11:16, Prasad wrote:
>
> > We are always interested in the contributions that would make the
> > framework much better than what it is.
> >
>
>
> Sorry Prasad, but what a complete and utter load of rubbish. He may as
> well shout at a deaf man.
>
>
> > You are welcome to use the updates that suit best and contribute patches
> > to us - we appreciate the same.
> > If there is a strong dependency - we may have to rewrite - hope the
> > license would allow it.
> >
> > Please send us the list of vulnerability you would like to share - we
> > will review and act on them sooner
> > and devise a patch release if required.
> >
>
> Hahahahahahahahahaha....................
>
> Contribute patches ? What should devs do ? Write it on a post card and
> mail it ?
>
> With all due respect Prasad (and all the vtiger team), and having sat on
> the side of this debate (and many similar ones for a long time), you
> have clearly 'missed the boat'. He isn't going to give you any more code
> because you really don't care, and finally, neither does he.
>
> You cherry pick what you want from devs, and drop the rest. Do I blame
> him ? Not one bit. You haven't listened or cared before. Why now....
> ????? Ahhhhh....... oooops. A vulnerability that you missed...... maybe
> you should have listened to him before then ? vTiger team reach out to
> the community...... when it suits.
>
> I don't know when the vtiger devs/managers will ever wake up to the fact
> that you have lost too many good developers due to your intransigent
> isolationist attitude.
>
> Who are the losers ? vTiger, and its users. There are no winners.
>
> Chris Hamono sums it nicely in his post
>
> http://lists.vtigercrm.com/pipermail/vtigercrm-developers/2014-October/030147.html
>
> Look at Joe Bordes, Adam Heinz, and now Blazej, amongst (many) others.
> Great developers, but you have ignored them for so long that they
> decided they had to vote with their feet. How many users has that cost
> you ? How much money has it cost you ? Probably a lot more than you may
> think. There are none so blind as those who cannot see.
>
> To me, this thread sums it up :
>
> Wrong Billing / Shipping Address in PO
>
> http://lists.vtigercrm.com/pipermail/vtigercrm-developers/2014-October/030081.html
>
> This is complete and utter insanity. I've heard some pathetic excuses
> before, but this takes some beating.
>
> I really don't get what you guys are doing. Bugs outstanding forever and
> a day, and your eventual answer is to 'upgrade' after people have had to
> hack the system to make up for the fact you couldn't be bothered to
> release even simple fixes and thereferore ended up with a bespoke system
> that is a nightmare to upgrade ? Don't even ask about my upgrade from
> 5.2.1 - 5.4 No wonder '30%' haven't shifted to v6 or whatever. How many
> of those are now looking at different solutions as it is probably easier
> than upgrading to your "not very latest and greatest" and going through
> all that pain again ? I'd love a bit of whatever you are smoking - it
> must make the world look great.
>
> Open Source is not about making a commercial version, and then offering
> belated scraps to the community, which is all you actually do. It's not
> about having a 'developer list' just to trawl and hope you pick up the
> odd security fix that your team missed, or a brighter idea you can
> implement and call your own.
>
> It's about offering quality support to those that choose to pay for it,
> and working with your community to make it better for one and all.
>
> You (or you bosses) don't seem to grasp the concept that encouraging
> developers to enhance your software can be beneficial to yourselves
> because you can use the patches etc to enhance the PAID FOR version.
> Free developers. Oh, what a novel idea. Never thought of that before.
>
> Paid for = same software, but better support. Customers get bespoke
> functionality that others don't. They get you on the end of the
> phone NOW if there is an issue. Others don't. Paying customers get fixed
> today. Everyone else gets it tomorrow, or the day after.
>
> But not 2 YEARS (or whatever) after.
>
> I have seen so many great ideas, patches etc suggested here by
> phenomenally talented developers, and yet time after time you ignore
> them (despite untold promises of how you are going to do more with the
> community) and ignore and frustrate them until they feel they have
> nowhere else to go but to either use a different product or fork. How
> sensible is that ? Are you going for a record as the most forked project
> ever ? Yes, you can tell the world about how great your software must be
> if people want to fork, but it disguises the ugly truth that the reason
> they fork is that you won't listen or work with them. Forks fix nothing.
> They dilute the talent pool.
>
> I'm no coder, but have reported bugs in the past. I'm competent enough
> to test and report, make changes etc. But you wonder why you bother when
> they are just ignored. In the end you give up. The trac is, by and
> large, a complete waste of time and resources. As is the forge
> http://forge.vtiger.com/ - dead as a door nail. And look at sourceforge...
>
> The upshot is that, and to be completely brutal, you release the open
> source version to make yourselves look good in the market place - to get
> your 'Open Source badge' to look good on the marketing spiel.
>
> Vtiger CRM Named a 2014 CRM Market Leader by DestinationCRM
>
> "......Vtiger CRM has taken home a Market Leader award for Open Source
> CRM."
>
> But it's bull you can smell half a planet away.
>
> To you, open source is a necessary evil to further your commercial aims
> (or those of your venture capitalists, or whoever is behind your
> company). You are leeches trying to suck out as much as you can whilst
> giving back as little as possible. I am sure that if you had your way
> you would dump the OS version completely.
>
> OK. That's fine.
>
> But what I dislike is your pretence that you care, your pretence that
> this is real open source, your pretence at a community, your pretence
> that you listen to developers and want to work with them. Because having
> looked on for several years now, that is all it is. A complete and utter
> 110% sham. And I don't think I am alone in thinking that. You should be
> ashamed.
>
> This is no more Open Source than it would be if Microsoft released the
> source code to DOS.
>
> If nothing else, have the courage and decency to stand up and be honest
> about what you really are. Be closed source. Or be genuinely open. Stop
> playing charades.
>
> There was a time when I recommended vtiger to people because I actually
> believed the publicity. I supported your position in the forums. I
> almost got to the point of looking at paid for support myself. But I
> can't use your cloud offering. And would I recommend it now ? Not a cats
> chance in hell.
>
> Me personally ? I feel both upset and let down by vtiger. You promise so
> much, and deliver so little. I've heard the same pathetic excuses time
> after time. But clearly cash talks and morals walk.
>
> When the time comes for us to upgrade, it won't be to vtiger itself.
> It'll be somewhere where the devs listen and want to work in a two way
> relationship, not a one way street.
>
> What a crying shame. As I have so often said. vTiger is good. It could
> have been great...........
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
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