[Vtigercrm-developers] A translation question (i18n)

[Torsten Zenk]

Kristof,
i have done a lot of research on vTiger 5.03 to be able to change a lot 
of german strings that had to be changed manually to get into the right 
order, if you are interested i could get those of them that i documented 
back then out from somewhere within my vtiger docus and pass it over?

Best Regards
Torsten Zenk

Kristóf KOVÁCS schrieb:
> Hello Tigers,
> Please see the following patch:
> http://trac.vtiger.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/5404
>
> It's decidedly only a start (a full overhaul in one patch would be
> unrealistic -- the code would change a lot while one finds
> all occurrences of such language constructs), but if this Smarty function is
> accepted into the vTiger core, we will start and gradually find all places
> where our supported languages require different word orders, and change the
> templates.
>
> Those changesets will be sent in as patches, too, as translation goes
> forward.
>
> Kristof
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Kristóf KOVÁCS <
> kristof.kovacs at onlineprojects.hu> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>> Smarty is theoretically extensible, I'm thinking about using
>> Smarty.register_function(...), not hacking into the Smarty base, of course.
>> :)
>>
>> Maybe something more general like
>>
>> {vtiger_translate $APP.ADD_NEW $APP.Contact}
>>
>> and
>>
>> 'Contact' => 'Contact',
>> 'ADD_NEW' => 'Add %s',
>>
>> 'Contact' => 'Kontakt',
>> 'ADD_NEW' => '%s Hinzufügen',
>>
>> What would you think?
>>
>> (In the process, introducing new context based (not reused) keys is also a
>> must-have, just as you say.)
>>
>> Kristóf
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Prasad <prasad at vtiger.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hi Kristof,
>>>
>>> I would suggest not adding too much hack to any Smarty functions it will
>>> pose difficulty to upgrade the library later.
>>>
>>> Coming up with context based language keys is a way to go (as I can think
>>> of now).
>>> We need to clean up TPL files in the beginning and add required language
>>> translation key this will make sure other
>>> language translators put in proper values based on the context.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Prasad
>>> vtiger Team
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/24/08, Kristóf KOVÁCS <kristof.kovacs at onlineprojects.hu> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hello Prasad,
>>>> thanks for your answer! Of course, I don't wish to force a language
>>>> cleanup on your team. :) I'm merely thinking about developing the
>>>> foundation, the infrastructure for such a change, and then, I hope,
>>>> individual translators of different languages would do the modifications in
>>>> both the TPL and the language files. I would certainly do our own part,
>>>> Hungarian translation requires different word order at several places.
>>>>
>>>> But I want to discuss the concepts with you guys, since for such a
>>>> change, it requires consensus (I also would like to hear opinions from
>>>> veteran translators of the project). Also it would be very bad if our
>>>> development tree would diverge from yours, both in terms of maintenance (for
>>>> us), and in opportunity lost (for everybody).
>>>>
>>>> Prasad, we all know and trust you as one of the best core developers, so
>>>> just one question: what do You say, just from the top of your head, would
>>>> there be any better solution for the problem, or should we go think forward
>>>> with the "added-Smarty-printf-function" solution? (Would you accept into the
>>>> codebase the patches we would be starting to send in of modified TPL files
>>>> and language files?)
>>>>
>>>> Kristóf
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Prasad <prasad at vtiger.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Hi Kristof,
>>>>>
>>>>> This issues has been brought up earlier as well. To make the translation
>>>>> clean up all-over the product it could
>>>>> take more effort both in terms of development and validation. Currently
>>>>> we are focusing on getting in new features
>>>>> as we go along we can better plan for language cleanup's as well. This
>>>>> give us more focused work items.
>>>>>
>>>>> We would appreciate community help in identifying such language or
>>>>> translation issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Prasad
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/24/08, Kristóf KOVÁCS <kristof.kovacs at onlineprojects.hu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Hello Tigers,
>>>>>> I was talking with Dávid of CafeOpen about vTiger translations, and
>>>>>> there is one issue which my team often faces with, and this is word order.
>>>>>> Let me illustrate it with an example (using German instead of Hungarian to
>>>>>> make it more clear, but the concept is the same).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, in ActivityEditView.tpl there is the following code:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <input title="{$APP.LBL_ADD_NEW} {$APP.Contact}" .....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this shows a button called "Add Contact". It seems all well since
>>>>>> "$APP.LBL_ADD_NEW" is "Add" and "$APP.Contact" is "Contact".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But "Add Contact" in German is "Kontakt hinzufügen" (notice that the
>>>>>> words are in a different order). Now we have a problem since
>>>>>> "{$APP.LBL_ADD_NEW} {$APP.Contact}" can not be forced to display this, and
>>>>>> saying "hinzufügen Kontakt" does not sound quite right (it sounds very bad
>>>>>> indeed).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Translation quirks can circumvent some of such problems (one could
>>>>>> write "Neue Contact"), but often these strings are reused at other parts of
>>>>>> the code, and fixing it in one place often destroys grammar at other places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One idea would be to use printf()-like format strings to correct such
>>>>>> issues, even if it may require an introduction of a now Smarty function. I'm
>>>>>> thinking along the lines of something like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {a_smarty_printf_function
>>>>>> $APP.ADD_NEW_SOMETHING_FORMATSTRING, $APP.LBL_ADD_NEW, $APP.Contact}
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then, in english, the .lang file would read:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> 'LBL_ADD_NEW' = 'Add',
>>>>>> 'Contact' => 'Contact',
>>>>>> 'ADD_NEW_SOMETHING_FORMATSTRING' => "'%s %s", // Very simple format
>>>>>> string, no surprise here
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And in german, it would be:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> 'LBL_ADD_NEW' = 'Hinzufügen',
>>>>>> 'Contact' => 'Kontakt',
>>>>>> 'ADD_NEW_SOMETHING_FORMATSTRING' => "'%2$s %1$s", // Notice how I used
>>>>>> "1$" and "2$" to access arguments in different order
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't feel it elegant enough (but more elegant than the original), so
>>>>>> comments, suggestions, ideas, better solutions are very much welcome. Please
>>>>>> all brainstorm this ever the next coffee. :o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kristóf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Reach hundreds of potential candidates - http://jobs.vtiger.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Reach hundreds of potential candidates - http://jobs.vtiger.com
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Reach hundreds of potential candidates - http://jobs.vtiger.com
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Reach hundreds of potential candidates - http://jobs.vtiger.com
>>>
>>>       
>>     
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Reach hundreds of potential candidates - http://jobs.vtiger.com 
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