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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">Hi all,<BR>It should be little effort to introduce an Extension which re-enables the install from file Option in the ui.<BR>Of course This one extension would have to be installed by script and not by module Manager.<BR>But such an approach strongly reminds of "rebels vs. empire" and should not be favored at all in a healthy open source Community!</DIV></DIV>
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<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Von: </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><A href="mailto:vtigercrm-developers-request@lists.vtigercrm.com">vtigercrm-developers-request@lists.vtigercrm.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Gesendet: </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">30.07.2014 14:00</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">An: </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><A href="mailto:vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com">vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Betreff: </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 102, Issue 117</SPAN><BR><BR></DIV>Send vtigercrm-developers mailing list submissions to<BR>vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>http://lists.vtigercrm.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers<BR><BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>vtigercrm-developers-request@lists.vtigercrm.com<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>vtigercrm-developers-owner@lists.vtigercrm.com<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of vtigercrm-developers digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR> 1. Re: Cooperation - part 1 (IT-Solutions4You)<BR> 2. Mail manager - gmail&tickets (SIAM Translations)<BR> 3. Vtiger 6 in PHP 5.4 (lajeesh k)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 09:57:36 +0200<BR>From: IT-Solutions4You <info@its4you.sk><BR>To: vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Cooperation - part 1<BR>Message-ID: <lra8he$7iu$1@ger.gmane.org><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<BR><BR>I think without 'install from file' button, vtiger CRM Open Source is <BR>dead project, so it was not only our voice. It was a reaction to stupid <BR>idea remove this button. You ever think about it what you are doing and <BR>how it will affect on community? I suppose only 10% of vtiger CRM users <BR>can use Extensions Store because of implementation extension loader <BR>http://community.vtiger.com/help/vtigercrm/php/extension-loader.html and <BR>withou Extensions Store is not possible do basic think like install new <BR>language file and another module manager compatible extensions. How do <BR>you plan expand your product if there is no language option etc ?<BR><BR><BR>D?a 29. 7. 2014 10:48 Sreenivas Kanumuru wrote / nap?sal(a):<BR>><BR>> Thanks for sharing these, Blazej. You have recently lent your voice for<BR>> adding the 'install from file' button in the Extension Store, and we did<BR>> it. We respect your opinion. (Infact, i emailed you a month ago to get<BR>> your feedback but didn't receive your reply).<BR>><BR>> While more remains to be done, I am pleased with the progress we have<BR>> made since January on several aspects<BR>><BR>> 1. Extensions Store coming soon to make it easy for publishers to<BR>> distribute modules to more users<BR>> 2. Dedicated team in Vtiger, for resolving trac issues.<BR>> 3. Focus on improving APIs to allow developers to write powerful extensions<BR>> 4. Focus on better Documentation - New site -<BR>> community.vtiger.com/help <http://community.vtiger.com/help><BR>> 5. Marketplace site will soon feature developers section to allow<BR>> developers to promote their services (not just extensions).<BR>><BR>> I responded to your points below.<BR>><BR>> *Why Vtiger doesn't publish some modules?*<BR>><BR>> /Although our modules have been installed on hundreds of servers,<BR>> the producer did not want to accept them and crated more problems.<BR>> This problem concerned a very simple module and we had dozens of<BR>> other modules for publication that were far more complicated than that./<BR>><BR>><BR>> We want to see more modules on the marketplace, not less. And we want to<BR>> make it easy for users to install those modules without putting their<BR>> installations at risk. Modules should be upgrade safe.<BR>><BR>> With the new marketplace, our goal is to respond to new submissions,<BR>> within 2 business days. We didn't do a good job on dealing with<BR>> submissions last year, but that will change now.<BR>><BR>> *Issues from Trac are not being resolved *(they are)<BR>><BR>> After six months of reporting and ignoring them by the designer, we<BR>> finally stopped adding them to trac.vtiger.com<BR>> <http://trac.vtiger.com/>.<BR>> /A lot of errors that we reported stayed either unresolved (although<BR>> they were marked as solved) or was completely ignored. For us trac,<BR>> turned out to be impractical. /<BR>><BR>><BR>> In the past 6 months, we have closed 100+ trac issues. 94 of the 170<BR>> issues on 6.0 are closed. More fixes are yet to be committed to SVN.<BR>><BR>> *Developers have to pay to get extensions listed* (Wrong)<BR>><BR>> /Partnership would probably exist if we paid the producer. However,<BR>> our values are somewhere else and they have never been appreciated./<BR>><BR>><BR>> This is absolutely wrong. Our paid partner program only buys you a<BR>> listing on the partner page. It doesn't get your extension listed on the<BR>> marketplace, or get your code into the product. Extensions and Code<BR>> submissions are reviewed on their own merit, nothing else.<BR>><BR>> *Performance *(2 seconds or less)<BR>> *<BR>> *<BR>> Our average response time for On Demand service is 2 seconds. We measure<BR>> it daily because we take it seriously. Vtiger CRM open source has the<BR>> same code base. We are on a mission to improve the performance to get it<BR>> under 1 second. I know in some cases, such as Reports, Calendar,<BR>> response times are unacceptable when you have over very high number of<BR>> records. We have an On Demand customer for who reports are taking 2<BR>> minutes. We are working on addressing this in the product.<BR>><BR>> Regards,<BR>> Sreenivas<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 1:12 PM, IT-Solutions4You<BR>> <info@its4you.sk<BR>> <mailto:info@its4you.sk>> wrote:<BR>><BR>> Yes, We agree with all your points. We work with vtiger 8 year (from<BR>> vtiger 4.x version) and we have the same experiences. Absolutely not<BR>> boring, just truly.<BR>><BR>><BR>> D?a 28. 7. 2014 21:43 Pabiszczak, B?a?ej wrote / nap?sal(a):<BR>><BR>> *Introduction (boring, you can skip it ;)*<BR>> *<BR>><BR>> *<BR>> OpenSaaS has dealt with the implementations of Vtiger software<BR>> for five<BR>> years. I, as the owner of the company, have seven years of<BR>> experience<BR>> with it. We maintain an active contact with the community in<BR>> Poland and<BR>> we are eager to help others, often behind official channels.<BR>><BR>> Cooperation with Vtiger has always been complicated. Our first<BR>> obstacle<BR>> was the English language that is used in the software. Then, our<BR>> second<BR>> obstacle was the fact that the producer perceived us as<BR>> ?necessary evil?<BR>> and/or ?competitors?.<BR>><BR>> OpenSaaS has been implementing Vtiger 6 (from the first alpha<BR>> versions)<BR>> since a year, because it is a huge step in comprehending business<BR>> applications, even at the expense of stability that our company<BR>> corrected during tests at the end customer.<BR>><BR>> We placed our hopes on the producer thinking that if something<BR>> that was<BR>> released in 6.0 version was unstable, it will be corrected in 6.1<BR>> version. We reported over 100 errors during six months (a lot of<BR>> them<BR>> beyond trac.vtiger.com <http://trac.vtiger.com><BR>> <http://trac.vtiger.com>). Additionally, we did<BR>><BR>> not report hundreds of other errors since they seemed so obvious<BR>> that it<BR>> would not make any sense.<BR>><BR>> *Cooperation (also boring and you can skip it ;o)*<BR>> *<BR>><BR>> *<BR>> It is surprising, how difficult a contact with the producer can<BR>> be, even<BR>> though the considerable majority of reported errors regarded the<BR>> development of their application. I will divide it into<BR>> subsections in<BR>> order to make it more transparent:<BR>><BR>> 1. Modules<BR>> As one of the largest Vtiger software producers in the world, we<BR>> reposed<BR>> our trust in the producer. Unfortunately, in spite of many<BR>> attempts to<BR>> communicate we gave up, and what induced us to do so was:<BR>> an attempt to publish modules for 5.4 version took many months<BR>> (to no<BR>> effect, in spite of sending many emails and reminders) - our<BR>> concerns<BR>> were completely ignored by Vtiger<BR>> difficulties regarding the modification of system files<BR>> (unfortunately,<BR>> there was no possibility for 5.4. version to create modules<BR>> differently,<BR>> the exception were modules of ?hello world? type)<BR>> When after two years, we managed to reach a compromise and the<BR>> producer<BR>> promised to find the time and publish modules, it turned out<BR>> that they<BR>> started to reject the colour of fonts or, in more extreme cases, odd<BR>> visual elements. It would be acceptable, if the producer themselves<BR>> fulfilled these assumptions at least in 10% in their modules.<BR>> Although our modules have been installed on hundreds of servers, the<BR>> producer did not want to accept them and crated more problems. This<BR>> problem concerned a very simple module and we had dozens of other<BR>> modules for publication that were far more complicated than that.<BR>><BR>> That is why we gave up the publication of modules for Vtiger.<BR>><BR>> 2. Reporting errors<BR>> We do not understand why the producer ignored many of errors that we<BR>> reported. After six months of reporting and ignoring them by the<BR>> designer, we finally stopped adding them to trac.vtiger.com<BR>> <http://trac.vtiger.com><BR>> <http://trac.vtiger.com><BR>><BR>><BR>> A lot of errors that we reported stayed either unresolved<BR>> (although they<BR>> were marked as solved) or was completely ignored. For us trac,<BR>> turned<BR>> out to be impractical.<BR>><BR>> Many times we suggested ready-made solutions for problems but<BR>> they were<BR>> always ignored. Even our numerous requests for adding one line<BR>> of code<BR>> to files of the engine were impossible to be fulfilled by the<BR>> producer.<BR>><BR>> We cannot cooperate this way.<BR>><BR>> 3. Partnership<BR>> Partnership would probably exist if we paid the producer.<BR>> However, our<BR>> values are somewhere else and they have never been appreciated.<BR>><BR>> *Priorities*<BR>> *<BR>><BR>> *<BR>> I am going to omit certain problems, such as community that does not<BR>> exist, documentation that is missing or the fact that users of the<BR>> software are often ignored. Now, Vtiger is becoming more and more<BR>> commercialised. I could provide many examples but it is not my aim.<BR>><BR>> An end customer, who the producer wants to acquire, is the biggest<BR>> problem. Currently, small companies and individuals are the most<BR>> important customers for Vtiger. Their main objective is to<BR>> develop their<BR>> cloud that constitutes their part of profits. Obviously, the<BR>> producer<BR>> decides on its own in which direction they would like to<BR>> develop, but it<BR>> created a lot of problems:<BR>><BR>> Quantity, not quality<BR>> The producer aspires to create an average product that is<BR>> delivered to<BR>> an end customer without prior testing. There have been a lot of<BR>> minor<BR>> functionalities created in order to make it possible to compare the<BR>> product with other software, such as SugarCRM or Sales Force. In<BR>> fact,<BR>> there are created defective semi-finished products that are not<BR>> acceptable for the regular customer.<BR>><BR>> What has been done with the modules:<BR>> Trouble Ticket<BR>> Calendar<BR>> Google Sync<BR>> Mail Manager<BR>> Reports<BR>> implies that the producer does not respect end users. I am not<BR>> going to<BR>> describe problems with these modules (and many others) because<BR>> who used<BR>> them knows what I am writing about.<BR>><BR>> I regard deleting part of the functionalities from 6.0 version<BR>> and not<BR>> restoring them by eight months as an act of ignorance.<BR>><BR>> Although we sent ready-made solutions for migration errors from 5.4<BR>> version to 6.0 version to vtiger-list, they were not corrected for<BR>> months and I will leave it with no comments.<BR>><BR>><BR>> Shop<BR>> What the producer does with the shop is the indicative of software<BR>> commercialisation and the preference of own solutions over the<BR>> solutions<BR>> of partners as well as it is also the sign of ignoring the needs of<BR>> communities.<BR>><BR>> Performance<BR>> Nobody, who have not tried to do the following things, will<BR>> understand<BR>> this problem:<BR>> import millions of data,<BR>> implement the software in companies larger than 100 users.<BR>> It is incredible what Vtiger did in the calendar in Vtiger 6 (it<BR>> is only<BR>> one of many examples). During the past few months, we have<BR>> introduced<BR>> the software in a few very large companies, we have spent a lot<BR>> of time<BR>> on improving the logistics in generating the calendar. The basic<BR>> functionality of the software is useless without a few days spent on<BR>> amendments in the code.<BR>><BR>> Although everyone makes mistakes, that situation made us think.<BR>> If we<BR>> take existing errors in Vtiger into consideration, we will come<BR>> into the<BR>> conclusion that the producer has not introduced their product in any<BR>> large company. Any big implementations would require cooperation<BR>> with<BR>> partners such as OpenSaaS and many days of work to optimise the<BR>> current<BR>> code and introduce patches.<BR>><BR>> If I were wrong, that would mean that the producer does not<BR>> introduce<BR>> any patches to Vtiger community version.<BR>><BR>> *Summary*<BR>> *<BR>><BR>> *<BR>> We think that current direction of the development of the<BR>> software is<BR>> detrimental to the community. The further cooperation in this<BR>> direction<BR>> is not possible for us. Only radical changes can rebuild our trust.<BR>><BR>><BR>> Z powa?aniem / Regards<BR>> B?a?ej Pabiszczak<BR>> M: +48.884999123 <tel:%2B48.884999123><BR>> E: b.pabiszczak@opensaas.pl<BR>> <mailto:b.pabiszczak@opensaas.pl><BR>> <mailto:b.pabiszczak@opensaas.__pl<BR>> <mailto:b.pabiszczak@opensaas.pl>><BR>><BR>><BR>> _________________________________________________<BR>> http://www.vtiger.com/<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> _________________________________________________<BR>> http://www.vtiger.com/<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> http://www.vtiger.com/<BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:00:10 +0700<BR>From: SIAM Translations <info@siam-translations.com><BR>To: Vtigercrm Developers <vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com><BR>Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Mail manager - gmail&tickets<BR>Message-ID:<BR><CAAcitv2Nk7CryUOL=G=Q1kCNkOSfPX7AXBgMVe14nOhrXgT9Yg@mail.gmail.com><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>- On Jun 11 I reported that mail-manager don't have any columns names<BR>allowing sorting emails (at least here).<BR>- Creating tickets from mail manager not working too<BR><BR>Will it be fixed in 6.1?<BR><BR>Regards<BR>Andrew<BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <http://lists.vtigercrm.com/pipermail/vtigercrm-developers/attachments/20140730/cd889372/attachment-0001.html><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:48:34 +0530<BR>From: lajeesh k <lajeeshk@gmail.com><BR>To: vtigercrm-developers <vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com><BR>Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Vtiger 6 in PHP 5.4<BR>Message-ID:<BR><CAA1bLmqy8O9E0c0aRJpzw9RNTYCcxhYsfBM8rXHzXpQVvo9n5w@mail.gmail.com><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>Is vtiger 6 works in PHP 5.4 ?<BR><BR>its ubuntu 14.04 mechine<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Lajeesh<BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <http://lists.vtigercrm.com/pipermail/vtigercrm-developers/attachments/20140730/73cb0531/attachment-0001.html><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>vtigercrm-developers mailing list<BR>vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<BR>http://lists.vtigercrm.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers<BR><BR><BR>End of vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 102, Issue 117<BR>******************************************************<BR></BODY></HTML>