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<font size="-1"><font face="Verdana">Sak,<br>
<br>
I agree. There may be a solution out there. I will look into the
usability resources and find out :-)<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Saint <br>
</font></font><br>
Sergio A. Kessler wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid49216030603060529p1482a65du53edb8782205dd44@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">hi saint,
I don't have a problem with this, but let me point that this is not a
new experiment.
for a unknow reasons many humans believe they are the first to do what
they do, but in fact what they are doing has been tryed many moons
ago... and many times has been also analyzed many moons ago...
it happens to me in programming every time, when I'am confronted with
a problem, my first reaction is "well, I can't be the only one with
this problem, sure this problem has been raised before and solved
before by someone else"
so, instead of wasting my time trying to invent something already
invented, I just focus my energy in searching for the available
solution.
and in my many years of programming I never invented something new :-)
and this is exactly what I'm trying to tell you,
don't be fooled thinking the problem you face rigth now, is something
new to the usability of web systems.
you are *not* the first to face this problem, in fact this problem has
been raised, studied and analyzed many time ago (it comes from the
frames era)
and has been the subject of many people specialized in the field of
web usability.
yes, you can experiment with this problem, I don't have any problem
with that, but what you are doing is nothing new.
/sak
ps: "(you lose the top tabs from eye-sight)" this is not a problem, it
happens on almost every site.
ps2: with a scrollable div, you also broke printing, I can't print the
whole page.
On 3/5/06, Saint <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:saint@vtiger.com"><saint@vtiger.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> After watching the thead, we feel, people have different opinions about
using scrollable DIVs. To find the best answer, let us experiment.
For beta we will give one module with scrollable DIV layout and one module
with non-div layout.
The Dashboard will retain the scrollable DIVs and will list the graphs in
2x2 fashion or 4x1 fashion, depending upon the screen resolution.
The At-a-Glance will get treated with non-div layout. This means, in the
Show All Modules, all 7+ tables will be listed one by one. Though this
actually leads to more page scrolls (you lose the top tabs from eye-sight)
it can be rectified with bookmarks to help reaching the page top. Clicking
the other modules such as Top Potentials, Top Leads etc will list the tables
of records as usual.
We will release beta with this setup and find the user feedback. Depending
on the feedback, we will conclude the solution.
So what you guys feel? shall we try this experiment?
- Saint
Brian Devendorf wrote:
I agree with sak. With AJAX and modern web browsers, web pages should
not have a scrolling area within another scrolling area. The issue I
was mentioning is that the dashboard view is about 1000 x 800 pixels
(guestimate). This means it looks horrible in smaller windows with
two scrollbars necessary for navigation. And for managers with a 21"
screen, they are only able to view the limited 1000 x 800 pixels
rather than use their entire screen. This may be acceptable for a
small sub-feature on a page, but not for the main focus of the page.
On Mar 4, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Sergio A. Kessler wrote:
1. I don't use IE.
2. most people use IE, so, if something affect IE, it is affecting the
vast mayority of users (no matter how fan I'am of firefox or linux).
3. I don't know if is a must, all I'm saying is that having multiple
scrollbars confuse people, all usability guys say that.
/sak
On 3/4/06, Mike Fedyk <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mfedyk@mikefedyk.com"><mfedyk@mikefedyk.com></a> wrote:
Sergio A. Kessler wrote:
saint, if you put a scrollable div, then it means there can be two
vertical scroll bar, the browser one, and the div one...
I think Brian is refering to the same, he just call this a "website
within a website"...
look at the following screenshot and you'll know what i'm talking
about...
see ? there are two vertical scrollbar... the fundamental concept
of a
"page" has been broken...
"The appearance of multiple pairs of scrollbars affects usability,
since users are essentially confused as to which scrollbars to use.
Hiding these scrollbars has the effect of hiding all content that
doesn't fit into the frame, thus seriously impacts users finding
their
way around a website or finding the content they wanted."
what you are doing is like putting a frame inside the main windows,
jakob nielsen (*) say this about frames:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html</a>
it evens happen to me (a supposedly experienced user), I want to see
what others type of reports are below "Invoices by Accounts", then I
rotate my mouse's wheel, only to find (confused) that I'am scrolling
the graph part (which is not what I want)
/sak
(*) jacob nielsen is considered by many as the # 1 guru of web
usability.
I'm sorry but I completely disagree.
Having scrollable lists within the page is a must, and it aligns with
the target of adding more AJAX features into vtiger. You *lose* the
concept of the page with AJAX, it is as simple as that.
And if you are talking about how IE and many windows apps don't
scroll
the window below the mouse pointer, then the bad usability is
because of
IE and Windows. This has been fixed for a long time in Firefox
and in
Gnome (don't know about KDE, but probably there too).
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