<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><br>Hi Graham!<br><br>I just responded to Matt's response. Do have a look.<br>Regarding security being made available in V4X, that is unlikely.<br>We will provide bugfixes etc on V4X but not any new features.<br><br>Richie<br><br><br>----grahama@add-ons.co.uk wrote ---- <br><br>Matt's comments all make sense, especially if you have dedicated time<br>and effort to development, so that vTiger will do what you want it to do<br>for your client base.<br><br>We have a number of key add-on modules and changes to vTiger that mean<br>that we will have to run with V4x until V5 has been production tested,<br>then had the work to migrate development and modules across. This may be<br>easier than we expect, although (with hindsight) this is rarely the<br>case.<br><br>Just to voice my concerns..... We want to see a V4 release that can<br>stand successfully during the period between now and the estimated April<br>(V5 due), and probable June + when the V5 release has had any initial<br>problems ironed out.<br><br>The big issue for us is that we are unable to start the work on our<br>roadmap because key elemental changes, such as security, have not been<br>declared yet and are not available for to test against, that includes<br>little documentation on 'what to expect'.<br><br>So, the question has to be ..... Is there going to be a V4x that has the<br>security layer added and also fixes incorporated?<br><br>Graham<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: vtigercrm-developers-bounces@lists.vtigercrm.com<br>[mailto:vtigercrm-developers-bounces@lists.vtigercrm.com] On Behalf Of<br>Matthew Brichacek<br>Sent: 02 February 2006 06:38<br>To: vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<br>Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 where to start? -<br>Bayesian Filter detected spam<br><br>On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 21:43 -0800, Richie wrote:<br><br>> a) Let us hold our head above water for sometime more and wait for 5.0<br><br>> to be out. I do not expect that 5.0 will take till summer to <br>> stabilize. I do expect that it will take at the max April to be out as<br><br>> of today. We are not going to pump in any great features as we used to<br>do earlier. So, that is a saving!<br>> <br>Are you serious? How can we leave such a lame duck out there? Call me<br>old-school but I think 5.x should be halted until 4.x is fixed and<br>stable enough to keep people off your back while you work on 5.x.<br><br><br>> b) The amount of effort going on to give patch4 is not small and I<br>feel<br>> it is better to fix things on a case by case basis. I am trying here <br>> to make things simpler and should have a plan by the end of the day. <br>> We can take the fixes that we have put into the Dev3 release and <br>> integrate on top of the 4.2.3 release or vice-versa. That should solve<br><br>> most of the issues. However, I need to check the effort-estimate here.<br>> <br>That's fine, in this case I think considered cases should be any<br>critical, showstopper or major bugs. As far as merging forward to<br>something that has more bugs fixed than 4.2.3, great! Not many people<br>wanted to start with our code base, which is fine, that was mostly a<br>band-aide and we would have lost all the tracking info that should be in<br>the SCM system right now. Anything that can be put forward that at<br>least gets us a little bit a head of 4.2.3 _and_ has the check-in<br>information would be great.<br><br><br>> Please note, I repeat, all of this is simply because we did not intend<br><br>> to release 4.2.4. This, is yet another on-the-run demand that we are <br>> facing, hence it is painful. I do not deny that we did not follow <br>> proper industry wide standards but we are willing to learn.<br>I don't see how this is an on-the-run demand. Downloads have<br>skyrocketed, forums posts are exploding, your user base is swelling.<br>Now they get a lame duck security release and all development halts<br>while 5.x is being cooked? I suspect someone spoke up about this<br>already, had I been paying attention I would have made just as much<br>noise, only sooner.<br><br><br>> JLee and JeffK have been asking for the release namings changes and <br>> we are working on those. We have changed the release naming as a <br>> start, the source code naming was incorrect, I agree and proper action<br><br>> will be taken to correct it.<br>> <br>Thats great because there is very little rhyme or reason behind the<br>current naming convention and now package maintainers are starting to<br>speak up. If we stop these folks from doing what they came to do, we<br>can kiss a lot of users good-bye. <br><br><br>> We are more than okay with having volunteers take up responsibility <br>> for the release handling, bug fix handling , etc. The more hands we <br>> have, the better it is.<br>> <br>I've already said that you can count me in as fully accountable for 4.x<br>maintenance but I won't maintain this stream if it's going to be wrote<br>off in favor of 5.x, which will have a breaking-in period of at least 3<br>months and as long as a year before it passes for production use in most<br>organizations.<br>Some people will jump to 5.x right away, usually these are your early<br>adopters, but what about the majority of other users out there that have<br>spent a lot of time/money/both on custom mods or making 4.x 'just right'<br>for their business? They don't even have the option of a support<br>contract through vtiger right now let alone maintaining it on their own<br>since the base they were depending on to merge back and pick fixes up<br>from has gone dead.<br><br><br>> Finally, I still respect you Matt. There is no 'hate' for you anywhere<br><br>> only respect. These are flaws that you pointed out in the system.<br>> That is only fair.<br>> <br>I expected this response and this is exactly why I don't think this is a<br>lost cause that has to fork. I know we can turn 4.x around and save<br>everyone who has choose to support 4.x for their customers and users<br>from having made a bad choice.<br><br>Matt<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>vtigercrm-developers mailing list<br>vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<br>http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers<br><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>vtigercrm-developers mailing list<br>vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<br>http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers<br></body></html>