<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body >Hi!<br><br>I do agree that there is considerable confusion right now wrt the forge and the <br>4.2.4 patch.<br><br>I would suggest that we make separate teams responsible for the forge and then the <br>4.2.x patch. <br><br>One of the main reasons why things are the way they are is simply because<br>we did not expect to release any more patches post 4.2.3. Now, there is a clamor<br>for that which, as I just mentioned, had not foreseen. <br>I also do agree that it was not an ideal behaviour to directly put all the<br>fixes on top of the 5.0 head base. <br><br>Since then, we have come a long way and too much water has gone down the<br>bridge.<br><br>As I see it, we have some options which I mention below :-<br><br>a) Let us hold our head above water for sometime more and wait for 5.0 to be<br>out. I do not expect that 5.0 will take till summer to stabilize. I do expect that it<br>will take at the max April to be out as of today. We are not going to pump <br>in any great features as we used to do earlier. So, that is a saving! <br><br>b) The amount of effort going on to give patch4 is not small and I feel<br>it is better to fix things on a case by case basis. I am trying here to make<br>things simpler and should have a plan by the end of the day. We can take<br>the fixes that we have put into the Dev3 release and integrate on top of<br>the 4.2.3 release or vice-versa. That should solve most of the issues. However,<br>I need to check the effort-estimate here.<br><br><br>Matt, there was never any intention to cause so much pain. We did what we<br>could at that point in time and hence we are here where we are today. Just<br>to remind you, we had been talking of the forge since long and also had <br>asked for help. Mike Crowe took up the cudgels volunteering his time and<br>has given us a first cut forge. Then, we had Fathi suggesting gforge. <br>So, there is yet another change. These are learnings on-the-run.<br>We make did with what we had at that point in time. <br><br>Secondly, <span style="font-weight: bold;">there is/was/will be</span> no intention of ignoring anyone, regardless<br>of them being developers/non-developers/etc. <span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;">vtiger crm is 'WE' based and</span><br style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;">not 'vtiger core' based . Our core strength is the community and as I have </span><br style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;">said earlier, we solely believe - United we stand, divided we fall.</span><br><br> Apropos the bugtracker, yes, it is complicated, I guess - mess is another <br>way you can put it. But then, all these were properly announced in due course <br>of time in the proper forums. The bug tracker is currently keeping the <br>5.0 in mind.I will ask my team to post the 'Legends' used to make sure that all of us<br>are in the same page.<br><br>Please note, I repeat, all of this is simply because we did not intend to<br>release 4.2.4. This, is yet another on-the-run demand that we are facing, hence<br>it is painful. I do not deny that we did not follow proper industry wide standards<br>but we are willing to learn. JLee and JeffK have been asking for the release namings changes<br>and we are working on those. We have changed the release naming as a start,<br>the source code naming was incorrect, I agree and proper action will be<br>taken to correct it.<br><br>We are more than okay with having volunteers take up responsibility<br>for the release handling, bug fix handling , etc. The more hands<br>we have, the better it is. <br><br>Matt: Thanks for venting out what you exactly feel. I do share your <br>frustration. What I have written above is the exact happenings.<br>I do not shy away from any blame. Yes, there are issues and <br>I do take ownership for them. The issues are there not because<br>we did not fix it, but because we did not know the right way of<br>fixing it and what we have now is a result of what we did to <br>fix it in our own in-house manner. I am willing to learn, any team<br>needs me, I will be there, just say the word.<br><br>Finally, I still respect you Matt. There is no 'hate' for you anywhere only<br>respect. These are flaws that you pointed out in the system.<br>That is only fair.<br><br>Bottomline: I take all responsibility for this mess Team and am willing<br>to fix them too! <br><br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Richie</span><br><br><br><br><br>----mmbrich@fosslabs.com wrote ---- <br><br>I've got to vent. This is a fsck'ing mess. There is no way to filter<br>bugs on bugs.vtiger.com to know what is valid and what's not for a<br>certain release number(not that I can see anyways). Feature additions<br>are listed as show stoppers/critical and it's an all around mess.<br>Everyone who's complained about current development process/tools used<br>are absolutely right and we _have_ to fix this. If you can help out<br>fathi with the new forge, it would go a long way towards hitting the<br>goal of better tools and would be a great way to contribute if you're<br>not into writing code. If you write code please step up for 4.x maint<br>help.<br><br>As far as the project management is concerned, something has to change<br>or we're going to see a fork in the near future just to straighten this<br>mess out and get a proper structure, the writing is on the wall. I am<br>all for listening to users but if you ignore the developers the project<br>will fork. This may all seem a bit harsh but consider it a<br>consolidation of all the other complaints about these topics in one<br>flame ball.<br><br>Hate me all you want, but please, let's just fix this. Open to all<br>suggestions about how to get started and what goals to set for the next<br>4.x release.<br><br>matt<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>vtigercrm-developers mailing list<br>vtigercrm-developers@lists.vtigercrm.com<br>http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers<br></body></html>