[Vtigercrm-developers] Roadmap and safety Vtiger & forks

Wed May 18 04:44:57 GMT 2016

Błażej,

I know you very well and the intention. But it could be perceived wrong
when others run through our conversations.

I often write what I think and I’m aware of the fact that it isn’t always
> good from a marketing or personal perspective. If you do not want me to
> write on the mailing list, just let me know and I will stop.

It is good to be oneself - its appreciated but making assumptions in wrong
direction is not a good move.
Considering the responsible role you play in the business or community.
This applies equally all of us.

We’re here because we’re looking for areas where we could cooperate.

Good to know.

>  In my opinion, you should designate one trusted person who would help you
> coordinate a project [e.g. Alan] because this person might bring a lot of
> energy, and more importantly, he may rebuild the trust of some of the
> community members towards the project and it may move everything forward.

All of our community members have equal responsibility without needing a
nomination. We treat community as an extended team. We know the role we are
playing in others business and take the opportunity to control the
direction we are heading. I'm glad to see the investment of energy and
support - which is key motivation that holds coordination responsibility on
us.

Look at other projects, ... because they develop much more rapidly than you
> and, in retrospect, it will become more and more noticeable.

Thanks for the pointer. Rapid is a relative term... Vtiger is part of our
every day life.
If we don't progress on code... doesn't mean we are idle, ideas baking in.

Regards,
Prasad

--
FB <http://www.facebook.com/vtiger> I Twit <http://twitter.com/vtigercrm> I
LIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/1270573?trk=tyah> I Blog
<https://blogs.vtiger.com> I Website <https://www.vtiger.com/>

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 2:46 AM, Błażej Pabiszczak <
b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com> wrote:

> @Prasad
>
> None of my replies aim to attack you. I criticize your approach as a
> producer and evaluate some of your actions but I do it only to motivate you
> because I hope you will do something about it. If you take it personally,
> then I do apologize but it’s not my aim. I know that my character is tough
> and it might be difficult to talk with me but I certainly do not want to
> offend anyone… I often write what I think and I’m aware of the fact that it
> isn’t always good from a marketing or personal perspective. If you do not
> want me to write on the mailing list, just let me know and I will stop.
>
> When it comes to our plans regarding Vtiger. We - YetiForce- will not be
> adding any code to Vtiger, we simply don’t have time for that, and we don’t
> see any point in doing so. However, we do see a lot of areas, where we
> could cooperate. The more we get from Vtiger by transferring the code, the
> more compatible our systems will be, and the easier it will be for you [or
> the community] to move functionalities from YF to Vtiger. Exchanging error
> information, mobile apps, or API seem to be a good start for the
> cooperation.
>
> YF doesn’t need Vtiger and neither does Vtiger need YF. If you take a look
> at our GitHub community you will see that we have our own community, and
> we’re not trying to find clients or developers in here. Those who wanted
> already switched, and mailing lists aren’t the best marketing tool. If we
> were looking for clients, we’d start from the forum and LinkedIn groups.
> We’re here because we’re looking for areas where we could cooperate. 18
> months ago we were still adding changes from your SVN once every couple of
> days [when you published them], now we add them really rarely, which means
> our system develops slower as well. In my opinion there’s a place for
> everyone and we can develop together.
>
> We sent links to two huge packages with error fixes that apply to YF,
> Vtiger and CoreBOS. In 2016 we will spend at least 25.000€ on security
> audits, and it would be worth to cooperate on that, instead of getting mad
> at each other. These significant security problems stem from the fact that
> no large company in the world has seriously deployed your system.
> Currently, we have two large deployments to be done and they expect
> protection from such attacks:
> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2013-Top_10 and the cooperation is
> different when 3 project [YetiForce, Vtiger, CoreBOS] work together towards
> better security, than when just one company works on it.
>
> In my opinion, you should designate one trusted person who would help you
> coordinate a project [e.g. Alan] because this person might bring a lot of
> energy, and more importantly, he may rebuild the trust of some of the
> community members towards the project and it may move everything forward.
>
> Look at other projects, such as SuiteCRM or many other commercial projects
> because they develop much more rapidly than you and, in retrospect, it will
> become more and more noticeable.
> ---
> Z poważaniem / Regards
>
> *Błażej Pabiszczak*
> *Chief Executive Officer*
> M: +48.884999123
> E: b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com
>
>
>
> W dniu 2016-05-13 17:06, Prasad napisał(a):
>
> Dear Błażej,
>
> I dislike to get more personal level feedback on this list.
> You can email me separately - I would appreciate to learn from it.
>
> I'm curious to know if your plan is to continue developing on Vtiger
> codebase.
>
> Regards,
> Prasad
>
> --
> FB <http://www.facebook.com/vtiger> I Twit <http://twitter.com/vtigercrm>
>  I LIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/1270573?trk=tyah> I Blog
> <https://blogs.vtiger.com> I Website <https://www.vtiger.com/>
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Błażej Pabiszczak <
> b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com> wrote:
>
>> @Prasad:
>> I don't know what priorities you are talking about, but they for sure
>> have nothing to do with the open source version. Looking at
>> code.vtiger.com I feel like you're pretending that you care, and I don't
>> mean whether or not there's someone who adds stuff there [because lately
>> something is going on in there], what I mean is that there's nobody to
>> manage that, nobody to develop that, and nobody to think how to improve the
>> open source version. You can write this down on code.vtiger.com:
>>
>>    - Vtiges is full of holes as a Swiss cheese [so are VTE CRM, CoreBOS,
>>    YetiForce]
>>    - Client Portal [including MYC] is full of holes as a Swiss cheese
>>    - 90% of marketplace modules are full of holes as a Swiss cheese
>>
>> I get it, you got different priorities [PHP 7] now, but if you start
>> doing something make sure you're doing it well, because most of PHP 7
>> changes are like hiding the problem instead of solving it comprehensively.
>> If you need an issue on code.vtiger.com there's nothing stopping you
>> from analyzing our revisions and all improvements, and transferring these
>> changes to your system. I'm not gonna do that, I'm just showing you where
>> the problem is, and that it must be addressed.
>>
>> Here's another pack of security error fixes:
>> https://github.com/YetiForceCompany/YetiForcePortal/commit/fe8098b3a1cbaf64c9890f6417ad0ca88021c40b.
>> It's related to MYC though, but MYC is based on the official client portal
>> that includes the same errors!
>>
>>
>> @Alan
>> It might prove to be a difficult task. At the moment barely any changes
>> we upload to YetiForce can be directly added to Vtiger. The difference is
>> that when we change anything in any module, we optimize it, change the
>> business philosophy, and adjust the engine right away. What's most
>> important, the majority of these changes is designed to allow for even more
>> changes in the nearest future.
>> Additionally, the analysis of what we do might take you a while, check
>> what the monthly GitHub Pulse shows: "Excluding merges, 10 authors have
>> pushed 251 commits to developer and 253 commits to all branches. On
>> developer, 1,074 files have changed and there have been 40,048 additions
>> and 18,621 deletions."
>>
>> The files we delete are no longer used by Vtiger, they are 4.x/5.x
>> version leftovers.
>> ---
>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>
>> *Błażej Pabiszczak*
>> *Chief Executive Officer*
>> M: +48.884999123
>> E: b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> W dniu 2016-05-13 12:27, Alan Bell napisał(a):
>>
>> OK, so in the linked commit, there is a new class AppRequest in
>> include/http/Request.php (it is in "includes" in vtiger at the moment
>> because yetiforce folded the /includes/ into /include/ a while back)
>> This class parses fields out of the $_REQUEST data in a number of ways,
>> and does it properly and would be a central point to add extra checks at
>> some point.
>> The commit also includes rewriting pretty much everywhere that $_REQUEST
>> is directly used in the codebase to use this new class. It is a good
>> improvement preventing various potential attacks (mostly attacks by
>> authenticated users, but probably some unauthed stuff, particularly around
>> password resetting)
>>
>> I think it also removes the following files on the basis that they are no
>> longer used, I am not sure if that is true for vtiger
>>
>> include/utils/InventoryUtils.php
>> include/utils/export.php
>> modules/Calendar/iCalExport.php
>> modules/Calendar/iCalImport.php
>> modules/ModComments/ModCommentsWidgetHandler.php
>> modules/OSSTimeControl/Save.php
>> modules/Reports/AdvancedFilter.php
>> modules/Reports/CustomReportUtils.php_deprecated
>> modules/Reports/ReportChartRun.php_deprecated
>> modules/Reports/ReportSharing.php
>> modules/Reports/ReportType.php
>> modules/Users/Authenticate.php
>>
>> so the commit clearly won't apply cleanly to vtiger, but it is good stuff
>> and we should incorporate it.
>>
>> I actually pulled a copy of yetiforce from github to code.vtiger.com the
>> other day, in the hope of being able to figure out how to efficiently move
>> stuff between the systems, and work out what the differences actually were
>> at this stage.
>> http://code.vtiger.com/alanbell/yetiforce
>>
>> I opened an issue for this topic here
>> http://code.vtiger.com/vtiger/vtigercrm/issues/203
>>
>> Alan.
>>
>> On 13/05/16 10:55, Błażej Pabiszczak wrote:
>>
>> Every now and then we send information about security errors, not only to
>> Vtiger, but also to creators of Vtiger modules. In most of the cases, these
>> changes aren't fixed. I don't understand why security is a taboo subject,
>> and why nobody considers our comments [maybe we should report each of these
>> cases publicly? Or maybe we should record a video on how to break into the
>> OD version?] Any ideas?
>>
>> The code that is currently added to Vtiger is of low quality, and since
>> releasing v6.0 nobody has been really dealing with the development as far
>> as quality and security are considered. Unfortunately, we inherited a lot
>> of code from Vtiger [it also applies to other forks – CoreBOS, VTE CRM].
>> The majority of errors we point out are related to not clearing the
>> variables, and storing useless old files full of holes. Let's see what the
>> reaction to this post is, if you ignore it we won't publish info like that
>> anymore, it's a waste of our time. Take into consideration that our
>> system doesn't have many of the modules that are in Vtiger because we wrote
>> them from scratch, so the link below is not a ready solution, it only
>> points out part of the found errors. Vtiger
>>
>> Therefore I suggest making a contest – how long does it take for serious
>> security errors to be fixed, and an update package to be released, after
>> publishing the errors on this mailing list.
>>
>>    -
>>    https://github.com/YetiForceCompany/YetiForceCRM/commit/4746cda904c88a26cce22194fb76f64d3df9893d
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>
>> *Błażej Pabiszczak*
>> *Chief Executive Officer*
>> M: +48.884999123
>> E: b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________http://www.vtiger.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
>
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