[Vtigercrm-developers] Email marketing scenario

IT-Solutions4You info at its4you.sk
Mon Aug 15 07:57:17 GMT 2016 

Hi Alan

 > it runs on the various events, create/save/delete and updates the
 > corresponding document in the full text server. The full text server
 > basically gets given the column_values array as key value pairs.

I have question:
Do you check fields permission during search? And what about 
deactivate/activate custom fields using layout editor. I think custom 
fields can be also deleted.

IMHO search has to be done on the fly not from stored data. What do you 
think ?

Matus

Dňa 12. 8. 2016 o 16:13 Alan Bell napísal(a):
> Hi Błażej,
>
>
> On 27/07/16 08:56, Błażej Pabiszczak wrote:
>>
>> @Alan
>>
>> for me this is just a discussion, if you prefer switching to emails
>> then I have no problem with that [though this is vtiger engine problem
>> so the list is the perfect place to discuss it]. I don't intend to
>> anyhow reduce the value of your module, it's a module like every other
>> module, I only want to talk about the logic, and point out some
>> problems...
>>
>> 1.
>>
>>     We have a module to generate random data [as far as I remember it
>>     should support generating data for vtiger by default as well], if
>>     you have any problems generating the data, I'll gladly send you
>>     the module.
>>
> sounds interesting, yes that would be helpful, thanks.
>>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 2.
>>
>>     I don't know how your solution works, but if it's based on
>>     Full-Text Search, then you won't get these data, for us it's a
>>     significant limitation for a search tool.
>>
> it runs on the various events, create/save/delete and updates the
> corresponding document in the full text server. The full text server
> basically gets given the column_values array as key value pairs.
>>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 2.
>>
>>     So your search is not very useful when it comes to large
>>     databases? When you send queries to the database, how many records
>>     do you get [50, 100, 1000?], if you for example get 100 records,
>>     and the system takes away the permissions on all records [because
>>     the record that the user can access is on the 2000^th place], then
>>     will you show the user that no data was found? The History of
>>     Changes widget on the homepage works like that right now – the
>>     bigger the base and the less data the user sees, the more often he
>>     sees nothing at all in the history of changes. If the mechanism
>>     works in the way I described [and I hope I'm wrong] then it has no
>>     business value because it falsifies the result.
>>
> we keep getting more data until we run out of results or fill the page
> we want to send to the user, so if they asked for 100 records we might
> look through 500 until we manage to get the top 100 that they can see.
>>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> As far as large number of users and test data are concerned, I'm
>> trying to show you that it doesn't matter if your search engine works
>> fast on large databases or not, because Vtiger as a whole doesn't work
>> well with large databases. I'll give you an example: in what way does
>> vtiger transfer data to select type fields? It transfers data by
>> sending html, instead of sending queries at AJAX database level and
>> sending the users list directly there. Additionally, it uses Chosen
>> instead of Select2; Select 2 is five times faster when it comes to
>> large amounts of data [eg 10,000]. When you load 20,000 users in
>> vtiger then one field will take SEVERAL SECONDS to load. There are
>> hundreds of examples like this, and they result from the fact that
>> nobody has deployed this system for a large company [I don't mean 100
>> users, I mean 2,000 – 20,000 users].
>>
> yeah, we haven't tried scaling vtiger to thousands of users, but we have
> done things with pretty chunky amounts of data. Scaling the users means
> you hit different problems. The full text index is aimed at large
> amounts of records, it could search gigabytes or terrabytes of data but
> it doesn't solve any of the problems of a large number of users.
>>
>> For the system to work properly it's not enough that you change the
>> global search engine, you also have to change the logic and the
>> core... because the changes are related to hundreds of files. So my
>> question is – do you want to develop the system on at the highest
>> level as developers, or do you want to make toy modules for micro
>> companies? The core needs changes, and they must be introduced to
>> code.vtiger.com, instead of trying to find a solution by implementing
>> modules, because it can't work like that!
>>
> yeah, there are plenty of core changes that need doing, I want to get
> the javascript libraries in order, perhaps using bower as a package
> manager for it. Mobile device support is something that can be improved,
> there is lots that can be done! The way I see modules working well are
> things for integrating vtiger with another tool that most people won't
> want, or vertical market solutions - perhaps something for estate agents
> selling houses for example. If it is something that everyone would want
> then it might as well go in the core.
>
>> ---
>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>
>> *Błażej Pabiszczak*
>> /Chief Executive Officer/
>> M: +48.884999123
>> E: b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com
>> <mailto:b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> YetiForce 3.0 LTS has arrived! Test
>> <https://gitdeveloper.yetiforce.com/> the latest, most innovative open
>> source system in the world, and join
>> <https://github.com/YetiForceCompany/YetiForceCRM>our community.
>>
>>
>>
>> W dniu 2016-07-26 16:42, Alan Bell napisał(a):
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26/07/16 15:10, Błażej Pabiszczak wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  1. Can you fill some test system with data, eg. Add 10.000.000
>>>>     records into the Accounts module?
>>>>
>>> yeah, I might have a go at that. I guess numbered data and some
>>> random stuff should be fairly easy to generate. I am not expecting it
>>> to affect the performance much.
>>>> 2. Does your search engine allow to search parts of words, eg. I
>>>> want to search for "EFG" in the word "ABCDEFGHI"?
>>> it should do, yes but there may be a performance hit for putting a
>>> wildcard at the start of the query. Looking at it now, I am not
>>> entirely sure we are handling wildcards correctly, but the underlying
>>> engine should work with them.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Can you add 10.000 users to the tested system?
>>>>
>>> won't make any different to the search performance as such - however
>>> when we get the search results back we do a vtiger API query to see
>>> if each crmid should  be seen by the current user, that way you can't
>>> find things that are private and assigned to other people. I am not
>>> sure if that scales to 10,000 users however if it doesn't then list
>>> views in vtiger don't work either!
>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>>>
>>>> *Błażej Pabiszczak*
>>>> /Chief Executive Officer/
>>>> M: +48.884999123
>>>> E: b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com
>>>> <mailto:b.pabiszczak at yetiforce.com>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> YetiForce 3.0 LTS has arrived! Test
>>>> <https://gitdeveloper.yetiforce.com/> the latest, most innovative
>>>> open source system in the world, and join
>>>> <https://github.com/YetiForceCompany/YetiForceCRM>our community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> W dniu 2016-07-20 14:32, Alan Lord napisał(a):
>>>>
>>>>     On 20/07/16 11:50, Alan Bell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             3. Does the search engine need any special search attributes?
>>>>
>>>>         not really, we do get a bit of a query language for free by using
>>>>         elastic search, but these are users who just want to type in words or
>>>>         phone numbers or dates and have the system find stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     For anyone interested, you can try it out on our demo server:
>>>>
>>>>     http://geotools.libertus.co.uk/index.php
>>>>
>>>>     Just start typing anything in the normal search box at the top of any page.
>>>>
>>>>     After three characters it will start sending stuff to the
>>>>     Elasticsearch server and displaying results in a popup.
>>>>
>>>>     If you want to you can go to the Vlastic Search view, which
>>>>     shows multiple ListViews of results on the same page with
>>>>     pagination too.
>>>>
>>>>     e.g.:
>>>>     http://geotools.libertus.co.uk/index.php?module=LSVlasticSearch&view=Search&value=smithf*
>>>>
>>>>     This demo system has about 120,000 records in it but it could
>>>>     have lots more...
>>>>
>>>>     The manual explains some of the search language capabilities,
>>>>     such as AND, OR, parenthesis, wildcards etc...
>>>>
>>>>     But if you type in "smith" it will find all records that has the
>>>>     word smith in them somewhere.
>>>>
>>>>     If you wanted to find something like smithfields (a meat market
>>>>     in London) you could type smith* or smithf* for example.
>>>>
>>>>     Cheers
>>>>
>>>>     Al
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>

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