[Vtigercrm-developers] Cooperation - part 1

Tue Jul 29 12:10:38 GMT 2014

>
> *Is there any chances of extending the api aside soa?*

Please post this in a separate thread. Also, please clarify what specific
API enhancements you are looking.

thanks,
Sreenivas

On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:26 PM, ajstharsan at gmail.com <ajstharsan at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi
> It is good to hear.
> Is there any chances of extending the api aside soa?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Sent from my HTC
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Sreenivas Kanumuru" <svk at vtiger.com>
> To: "vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com" <
> vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com>
> Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Cooperation - part 1
> Date: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 14:18
>
>
> Thanks for sharing these, Blazej. You have recently lent your voice for
> adding the 'install from file' button in the Extension Store, and we did
> it.  We respect your opinion. (Infact, i emailed you a month ago to get
> your feedback but didn't receive your reply).
>
> While more remains to be done, I am pleased with the progress we have made
> since January on several aspects
>
>    1. Extensions Store coming soon to make it easy for publishers to
>    distribute modules to more users
>    2. Dedicated team in Vtiger, for resolving trac issues.
>    3. Focus on improving APIs to allow developers to write powerful
>    extensions
>    4. Focus on better Documentation  - New site -
>    community.vtiger.com/help
>    5. Marketplace site will soon feature developers section to allow
>    developers to promote their services (not just extensions).
>
>  I responded to your points below.
>
> *Why Vtiger doesn't publish some modules?*
>
> *Although our modules have been installed on hundreds of servers, the
>> producer did not want to accept them and crated more problems. This problem
>> concerned a very simple module and we had dozens of other modules for
>> publication that were far more complicated than that.*
>
>
> We want to see more modules on the marketplace, not less. And we want to
> make it easy for users to install those modules without putting their
> installations at risk. Modules should be upgrade safe.
>
> With the new marketplace, our goal is to respond to new submissions,
> within 2 business days. We didn't do a good job on dealing with submissions
> last year, but that will change now.
>
> *Issues from Trac are not being resolved *(they are)
>
> After six months of reporting and ignoring them by the designer, we
>> finally stopped adding them to trac.vtiger.com.
>> *A lot of errors that we reported stayed either unresolved (although they
>> were marked as solved) or was completely ignored. For us trac, turned out
>> to be impractical. *
>
>
> In the past 6 months, we have closed 100+ trac issues. 94 of the 170
> issues on 6.0 are closed. More fixes are yet to be committed to SVN.
>
> *Developers have to pay to get extensions listed* (Wrong)
>
> *Partnership would probably exist if we paid the producer. However, our
>> values are somewhere else and they have never been appreciated.*
>
>
> This is absolutely wrong. Our paid partner program only buys you a listing
> on the partner page. It doesn't get your extension listed on the
> marketplace, or get your code into the product. Extensions and Code
> submissions are reviewed on their own merit, nothing else.
>
> *Performance *(2 seconds or less)
>
> Our average response time for On Demand service is 2 seconds. We measure
> it daily because we take it seriously. Vtiger CRM open source has the same
> code base. We are on a mission to improve the performance to get it under 1
> second. I know in some cases, such as Reports, Calendar, response times are
> unacceptable when you have over very high number of records. We have an On
> Demand customer for who reports are taking 2 minutes. We are working on
> addressing this in the product.
>
> Regards,
> Sreenivas
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 1:12 PM, IT-Solutions4You <info at its4you.sk> wrote:
>
>> Yes, We agree with all your points. We work with vtiger 8 year (from
>> vtiger 4.x version) and we have the same experiences. Absolutely not
>> boring, just truly.
>>
>>
>> Dňa 28. 7. 2014 21:43 Pabiszczak, Błażej  wrote / napísal(a):
>>
>>> *Introduction (boring, you can skip it ;)*
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>> OpenSaaS has dealt with the implementations of Vtiger software for five
>>> years. I, as the owner of the company, have seven years of experience
>>> with it. We maintain an active contact with the community in Poland and
>>> we are eager to help others, often behind official channels.
>>>
>>> Cooperation with Vtiger has always been complicated. Our first obstacle
>>> was the English language that is used in the software. Then, our second
>>> obstacle was the fact that the producer perceived us as "necessary evil"
>>> and/or "competitors".
>>>
>>> OpenSaaS has been implementing Vtiger 6 (from the first alpha versions)
>>> since a year, because it is a huge step in comprehending business
>>> applications, even at the expense of stability that our company
>>> corrected during tests at the end customer.
>>>
>>> We placed our hopes on the producer thinking that if something that was
>>> released in 6.0 version was unstable, it will be corrected in 6.1
>>> version. We reported over 100 errors during six months (a lot of them
>>> beyond trac.vtiger.com <http://trac.vtiger.com>). Additionally, we did
>>>
>>> not report hundreds of other errors since they seemed so obvious that it
>>> would not make any sense.
>>>
>>> *Cooperation (also boring and you can skip it ;o)*
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>> It is surprising, how difficult a contact with the producer can be, even
>>> though the considerable majority of reported errors regarded the
>>> development of their application. I will divide it into subsections in
>>> order to make it more transparent:
>>>
>>> 1. Modules
>>> As one of the largest Vtiger software producers in the world, we reposed
>>> our trust in the producer. Unfortunately, in spite of many attempts to
>>> communicate we gave up, and what induced us to do so was:
>>> an attempt to publish modules for 5.4 version took many months (to no
>>> effect, in spite of sending many emails and reminders) - our concerns
>>> were completely ignored by Vtiger
>>> difficulties regarding the modification of system files (unfortunately,
>>> there was no possibility for 5.4. version to create modules differently,
>>> the exception were modules of "hello world" type)
>>> When after two years, we managed to reach a compromise and the producer
>>> promised to find the time and publish modules, it turned out that they
>>> started to reject the colour of fonts or, in more extreme cases, odd
>>> visual elements. It would be acceptable, if the producer themselves
>>> fulfilled these assumptions at least in 10% in their modules.
>>> Although our modules have been installed on hundreds of servers, the
>>> producer did not want to accept them and crated more problems. This
>>> problem concerned a very simple module and we had dozens of other
>>> modules for publication that were far more complicated than that.
>>>
>>> That is why we gave up the publication of modules for Vtiger.
>>>
>>> 2. Reporting errors
>>> We do not understand why the producer ignored many of errors that we
>>> reported. After six months of reporting and ignoring them by the
>>> designer, we finally stopped adding them to trac.vtiger.com
>>> <http://trac.vtiger.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of errors that we reported stayed either unresolved (although they
>>> were marked as solved) or was completely ignored. For us trac, turned
>>> out to be impractical.
>>>
>>> Many times we suggested ready-made solutions for problems but they were
>>> always ignored. Even our numerous requests for adding one line of code
>>> to files of the engine were impossible to be fulfilled by the producer.
>>>
>>> We cannot cooperate this way.
>>>
>>> 3. Partnership
>>> Partnership would probably exist if we paid the producer. However, our
>>> values are somewhere else and they have never been appreciated.
>>>
>>> *Priorities*
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>> I am going to omit certain problems, such as community that does not
>>> exist, documentation that is missing or the fact that users of the
>>> software are often ignored. Now, Vtiger is becoming more and more
>>> commercialised. I could provide many examples but it is not my aim.
>>>
>>> An end customer, who the producer wants to acquire, is the biggest
>>> problem. Currently, small companies and individuals are the most
>>> important customers for Vtiger. Their main objective is to develop their
>>> cloud that constitutes their part of profits. Obviously, the producer
>>> decides on its own in which direction they would like to develop, but it
>>> created a lot of problems:
>>>
>>> Quantity, not quality
>>> The producer aspires to create an average product that is delivered to
>>> an end customer without prior testing. There have been a lot of minor
>>> functionalities created in order to make it possible to compare the
>>> product with other software, such as SugarCRM or Sales Force. In fact,
>>> there are created defective semi-finished products that are not
>>> acceptable for the regular customer.
>>>
>>> What has been done with the modules:
>>> Trouble Ticket
>>> Calendar
>>> Google Sync
>>> Mail Manager
>>> Reports
>>> implies that the producer does not respect end users. I am not going to
>>> describe problems with these modules (and many others) because who used
>>> them knows what I am writing about.
>>>
>>> I regard deleting part of the functionalities from 6.0 version and not
>>> restoring them by eight months as an act of ignorance.
>>>
>>> Although we sent ready-made solutions for migration errors from 5.4
>>> version to 6.0 version to vtiger-list, they were not corrected for
>>> months and I will leave it with no comments.
>>>
>>>
>>> Shop
>>> What the producer does with the shop is the indicative of software
>>> commercialisation and the preference of own solutions over the solutions
>>> of partners as well as it is also the sign of ignoring the needs of
>>> communities.
>>>
>>> Performance
>>> Nobody, who have not tried to do the following things, will understand
>>> this problem:
>>> import millions of data,
>>> implement the software in companies larger than 100 users.
>>> It is incredible what Vtiger did in the calendar in Vtiger 6 (it is only
>>> one of many examples). During the past few months, we have introduced
>>> the software in a few very large companies, we have spent a lot of time
>>> on improving the logistics in generating the calendar. The basic
>>> functionality of the software is useless without a few days spent on
>>> amendments in the code.
>>>
>>> Although everyone makes mistakes, that situation made us think. If we
>>> take existing errors in Vtiger into consideration, we will come into the
>>> conclusion that the producer has not introduced their product in any
>>> large company. Any big implementations would require cooperation with
>>> partners such as OpenSaaS and many days of work to optimise the current
>>> code and introduce patches.
>>>
>>> If I were wrong, that would mean that the producer does not introduce
>>> any patches to Vtiger community version.
>>>
>>> *Summary*
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>> We think that current direction of the development of the software is
>>> detrimental to the community. The further cooperation in this direction
>>> is not possible for us. Only radical changes can rebuild our trust.
>>>
>>>
>>> Z poważaniem / Regards
>>> Błażej Pabiszczak
>>> M: +48.884999123
>>> E: b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl
>>> <mailto:b.pabiszczak at opensaas.pl>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>
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