[Vtigercrm-developers] Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Sat Feb 25 11:57:10 PST 2006

Hello Graham,

Here is how I see it, and this is Off the Top of my Head ROUGH draft....

1.  Someone wants a feature that isn't currently avaliable.  It could be
something that the CORE really should have, OR it could that only a few
users could use.

2.  We go to a "Bounty Place" currently hosted in the forums, but at some
point and time I would like to see it on a system similar to scriptlance.

3.  Someone would post a feature they want/need with their Specs and how
much they are looking for pay for they part of the bounty.

4.  Other people would post that they are interested in joining this Bounty
and what they would be willing to pay for their portion of the Bounty and
any additional Specs they would like to see.

5.  After a period of time, when enough interest is in the Bounty, or Enough
money has been raised to casue interest from a Developer type, or it is seen
that the feature isn't "worthy" of a Bounty and if I want it, I have to hire
someone outright for it, then the discussion starts.

6.  Everyone gets their input, the users that have "agreed" to the Bounty,
which are the people fronting the money, and the developer/developers and
everyone agrees what can and will be done and a timeline for it.

7.  The people the want the Bounty will put the money up in escrow,
perferably into the hands of someone at vTiger.   They will hold the funds
until the project is done, and everyone is in agreement that the project has
done what was agreed upon.

8.  vTiger, which has the funds will keep their portion, to help them offset
their expensives and help them with more vTiger developement (not sure what
this precentage is 5%?  10%?   I don't know, that needs to be worked out.

9.  The rest of the fund are released to the developer/developers and they
get paid.   The developer/developers release the code to the people that
paid the bounty.

In theory that is how I see it working.   There are many things to clear
up.   Like:

a. What happens with the code then?
b. Who owns it?
c. What if it's something really helpful and should be in the core?
d. How do we justify a few people paying so all the others can sit back and
reap the rewards without fronting any money?
e. What about a dispute?
f. What is the people that want the feature can't agree on exactly what they
want?

On my opinion, for the above options, I would address a few things this way:

a/b. I think it should be the property of the people that paid for it until
the 2nd major release after it's finished

c/d.  If it's something that the core really needs, then I think it should
be discussed with the people that bought it and see if they want to release
it to the community right away.   If not, then it will be released to the
community after the 2nd major release after the project was done.   That way
it's a trickle effect, if someone wants something now, they pay for it, if
not they can wait and get it in the future.

This way, people can't not ante up if they want something, because they
won't get it for a while, but on the other hand, the vTiger team would
benefit in later releases because this would add features that are already
coded to future versions.

e. I think the vTiger team only should have final say.   They are unbasised
and I know they will be fair.

f.  I think if we can't agree on the terms, then the bounty isn't started,
finished.   Over time, maybe the minds of many can meet in the middle....
until then nothing gets done.

This is how I see it, others may see it differently or have something to
add.

Also, I agree with mike in that I don't think we need a Team for this, other
than the vTiger team.   I am sure all of us will pitch in and help out
however we can.   I think what Brian was thinking about was when we get a
system in place <like scriptlance> other than the forums, we might need
people then to help run that system.

I have an will help the vTiger team with or without title.   My company
gives me enough hats to wear, I don't need another one.  :)

Jamie

On 2/25/06, Graham Anderson <grahama at add-ons.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Ok All
>
> I think my problem is, I don't understand the bounty thing... how it works
> and how anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) can get involved.
>
> Perhaps someone can take a moment to outline the way that this will pan
> out, over time, so that we can agree some ground rules, or disagree and make
> our comments public, for wider debate.
>
> I would really appreciate an umbrella overview of what is intended and
> expected to be involved.
>
> Regards
>
> Graham
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vtigercrm-developers-bounces at lists.vtigercrm.com on behalf of Mike
> Fedyk
> Sent: Sat 25/02/2006 17:37
> To: vtigercrm-developers at lists.vtigercrm.com
> Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Build a vTiger Bounty Team
>
>
>
> Jamie Jackson wrote:
>
> > I'd call it marketing a fund raising system for developers.  Right now,
> >
> >     Brian is the one interested in maintaining this portion of the
> >     community
> >     and wants a title.  So "Bounty Maintainer" seems fair.
> >
> >
> > Hiya Mike,
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> >
> > I don't you to take this the wrong way, but on the surface it would
> > seem you are skectical<sp> of this bounty system?
>
> http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150
>
> I am for a bounty system.
>
> >
> > I am not sure why you would call it a fund raising system, although it
> > does put money in the developers pocket that steps up and helps us
> > non-programmers out with features our company needs.   I wouldn't call
> > it a fund raising system.  It just seems like a not so nice way of
> > naming it.
>
>
> I don't think anything is wrong with a bounty system for vtiger.  What I
> am doing is replying to a fellow developer that feels something is
> happening behind closed doors.  If I brought up something like that and
> they didn't acknowledge it and give me a straight answer, I wouldn't
> believe them.
>
> One part I am skeptical about is this "Bounty Team" thing.  One thing I
> have learned is not to count anything until you see it, and it doesn't
> align with the open source meritocracy (what I like to call an
> "effort"ocracy) concept where you put in the work before getting
> recognition.
>
> Maybe it's just a different management style, but I see it as marketing
> to get them to do what you want.  And I am inherently skeptical of
> marketing.
>
> >
> > We all understand that several things are true:
> >
> > 1.  The Core vTiger group is busy with 5.0
> > 2.  You are busy with maintaining 4.2x
> > 3.  We non-programmers need features that aren't in the current system
> > 4.  There are many people that would want the same features, so
> > sharing the costs of said features is a benefit.
> >
> > I believe a bounty system is a good thing, and a needed thing.  I am
> > sorry if I misunderstood your stance, but it just seemed on surface
> > that you didn't like this idea.
> >
> > Also, Brian didn't ask for a title for the sake of having one, I
> > believe he asked for the vTiger core group to get behind the idea of a
> > bounty system and let the community know they are supportive of the
> idea.
>
>
> I think the core vtiger team has already endorsed the first steps in the
> bounty system by creating a bounty forum and replying positively in the
> above linked forum topic.
>
> Also I think the request comes from a misunderstanding of the community
> process.  If there is a need you fill that need and titles come later.
> Nobody has full control of anything in the OSS community.  If I make a
> bad announcement or a bad commit I'll get called on it.
>
> >
> > Again, I am sorry if I misunderstood you, I just thought I would give
> > you my input.
>
> Not a problem.  And it looks like this your first post to the
> developer's mailing list.
>
> Welcome.
>
> Mike
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